Lol, if we start excluding tech based on the inventors mental illnesses we are gonna end up bashing rocks together to make fire.
Edit: To be clear, I am not saying that being trans is a mental illness, only refuting that mental illness is not a reason to discard ones contributions. Apologies for any offence.
let me tell you about the guy who invented bashing rocks together …
.>calling being trans a mental illness
incredibly sus ngl 
The original post called it a mental illness, i was following that. Apologies if I caused offence it was not intended.
So do you also think it is a mental illness, or are you just being a middle school edgelord?
The original post referred to it as a mental illness, and claimed that was a reason to ignore their contribution. I was simply pointing out the silliness of that logic. I dont think its a mental illness, amd I have absolutely no problem with the trans community.
was simply pointing out the silliness of that logic
There are many, many ways you could have done that without repeating the bigoted belief that being trans is supposedly a mental illness.
I didnt say anything about trans people in my original comment, and deliberately didnt quote the original post as its language disgusts me. Again, sorry for any offence caused, it was not intentional.
I didnt say anything about trans people in my original comment and deliberately didnt quote the original post as its language disgusts me
So why did you repeat the “mental illness” part?
If you really mean what you’re saying just take the L this one time and move on.
Being trans is not a mental illness but let’s not encourage stigma around mental illness either.
Cis people with mental illness are valid
Trans people with mental illness are valid
Mentally healthy trans people are valid
Mentally healthy cis people are valid
I mean, being trans is perfectly valid, but I think gender dysphoria itself should be classified as a mental illness so long as it brings significant pain/distress to the individual, the solution there is just gender reassignment, surgery, hormones, etc. I don’t think there should be stigma in calling it such, it needs treatment the same as anything else. People with ADHD have a mental illness and get meds, sometimes therapy, people with poor eyesight have an ocular dysfunction of some kind and get glasses or surgery or whatever, none of it should be that big a deal. The point is it can be diagnosed and treated.
I think the response to shit like “transgenderism” being a mental disease should be “well at least their/our dysphoria can be treated now, what’s your excuse?”
don’t threaten me with a good time
It’s so easy to be called *phobic these days. It reminds of those relationships in which people feel like they are walking on eggshells.
sigh, people suck.
This is actually something that bugs me about GitHub - I’m a Professional Software Developer, and we use GitHub enterprise internally at work (don’t @ me, we don’t have the budget to run our own infrastructure, BitBucket is crap and the sales person at GitLab ghosted me on 3 consecutive calls that we set up to discuss our needs). I’m also in charge of a team, and actively encourage the team to contribute to open source - find a bug? Draw up reproduction steps, report it upstream, and Fridays after lunch are dedicated to getting those bugs fixed. One of these days one of my team is going to run across one of these assholes, and I’m going to have a proper HR incident on my hands because that is a hostile work environment. Doesn’t matter that it is a member of the public being a dick, I’ve got an obligation to ensure that my staff have a workplace free of harassment, and I’ve got absolutely no recourse against this other than to say “cool, we don’t contribute to this repo anymore”.
that is a hostile work environment
I understand your frustration. I go to GitHub für code, not for some weirdo’s Telegram channel. But, come on, do your employees have access to the internet? Does someone maintain a Facebook page on the clock? Is Google allowed? Reasonable people can distinguish between workplace and internet hate.
Where I live at least, there is a difference because they are performing a task that they are being directed to perform as part of their job, as opposed to just randomly stumbling across hate while browsing the internet - if I’ve directed one of my staff to “submit a PR to this repo and work with the maintainers to get it merged” and some asshole drops into the comments they are being forced to engage in that situation, and that is not ok.
One case that I’ve heard of is a pizza delivery place that had to pay some serious compensation to a couple of their delivery people because they refused to stop accepting orders from someone who would be super abusive if their delivery person wasn’t a white guy. Management knew what was happening, the drivers had complained and asked for a resolution, management had refused to do anything about it, so the business had to pay compensation.
Where I live at least, there is a difference because they are performing a task that they are being directed to perform as part of their job
I agree. This makes it a workplace problem. Sucks.
the sales person at GitLab ghosted me on 3 consecutive calls that we set up to discuss our needs).
I’m guessing they looked at your company and decided you weren’t worth enough to them.
We found Gitlab’s pricing to be, frankly, ridiculous for the number of seats we have. Shame, the product is nice, just the sales team and pricing structure blows goats.
Rules around preventing a hostile work environment don’t place an obligation on anyone to prevent it at all costs. It means that if an employee or - more relevantly here - a customer - is being hostile, then the workplace needs to make sure the employee or customer stops. But if you work in a call centre cold calling people, your company isn’t going to get fined if you get an earful of abuse. (They might get fined for cold-calling depending on specifics :P) Same here.
What a charming person, I would love to run him over with a steamroller.
spoiler
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Under the steamroller with you! There’s no stopping the gay agenda! mwhahahahaha
images/emojis
The gay agenda involves two gallons of milk, two dozen eggs, and some potting soil. I can get the milk and eggs if you can go to the hardware store for that soil.
Good job reinforcing the fact that transphobes are dumb as shit
how I sleep after calling for violence against shithead transphobes
How dare you be upset when you are insulted!
🙄
Really? Jokes about steam roller counts as violence? Those Looney Toon be a real scary show for ya? Wild they make it for kids.
Shame on you. Feign your mock outrage and cry those crocodile tears, for the rest of us are laughing at the sad transparency.
In what world is driving a steamroller over someone not violent? How would you like it if someone made a meme about driving a steamroller over transgender people?
🐊 😭
You’re reaching and you know it.
You didn’t answer my question.
Because it’s a very silly question, one that I’m not going to entertain because…
Do you really think this person is out renting a steam roller? And trying to find the street address of that person now?!
You are steching so hard to call this a violent threat when it could not be more silly. You’re not motivated by “preventing violence”, because the entire premise here is ridiculous at face value. You’re motivated by wanting to call trans people unstable.
Go tell your friends, your boss, your family you stopped someone from getting killed by a steam roller by saying “tut tut, ur crazy” on the internet. You know damn well they are gonna laugh at you.
So I presume if someone posted a comment saying “I’d love to roll him over with a steamroller” under a post about a transgender person, you would not consider that a violent threat because they are not going to actually get a steamroller?
Respectability politics is nazi shit
stfu nerd
Let’s not pretend that you actually give a damn about transgender people. This is just concern trolling.
I do give a damn about violent threats on the internet.
I quite simply do not believe that for even a second.
you should die too, you worthless bigot
Do you also think video games encourage violence?
Which video game contains violence against a specific real-life person?
First, many, second, how do you feel personally threatened by a drawn steamroller running over xenophobes?
I don’t personally feel threatened. But the glorification of violence against a specific person is worrying.
You’re the kind of person who believes Onion headlines
Rage bait. Don’t fall for this, fellas.
Transphobia and such aside (which are shitty and unnecessary in their own right), how on earth can you realistically boycott Wayland when nearly every last Xorg dev has moved to Wayland permanently?
X11 is simply end of life, and there are no display server technologies or protocols that exist to challenge Wayland because no one cares enough to bother with the immesnse work it entails? At best you’ll be stuck on a legacy distro for a few years until your display drivers become too out of date for whatever apps you use.
I don’t really understand why people hate so much on transsexuality these days. Calling them a ‘scourge’ and 'mentally ill". What BS. Trans people are not hurting anyone. They just want to be their true self.
One of the arguments often used (also here) is that they are trying to force other people to be trans (in this case the poster says “they think everyone should get puberty blockers”). Which is complete BS, I have never met a trans person that wanted everyone else to be trans too.
It seems to be a big pet peeve of the extreme-right these days. I just don’t understand why.
They thrive of hating the weaker groups in society. If you want some morbid fun, try asking one of those what they should do with trans people if the had the power…
If they had to get mad at reality, there’d be a lot less to be mad about. Being mad about made-up BS is a way for them to have their cake and eat it too. It’s boogeymen all the way down.
They want everyone to be cis, so obviously everyone else wants people to be in their groups too!
The easiest way to steer a group is to get them all riled up about an issue that you don’t really need to do something about. Whenever you sense dissent or disorder you pull out that issue and everyone’s focused again and then you do whatever is actually in order.
Those in power hate losing control. That’s why bodily autonomy, sexual freedom, critical thinking, accurate history, and religious diversity are all their go-to boogymen.
Trans folk are just one of the more recent groups to be targeted.
I’ve known four out trans people. One was a piece of shit. The other three turned out to be amazing and empathetic people who all made my life better just by knowing them.
It turns out, when you deal with people being entitled jerks to you all day, that tends to make you a better person. Forged in fire and all that.
The main reason is that they try to control what people think and how they feel. They don’t understand that just because they want to be seen and treated a certain way doesn’t mean everyone else needs to accommodate them.
If you believe men can’t be women (and vice-versa), that’s fine. If you believe they can, that’s fine too.
If you believe your view is an abject fact and there should be no discussion, then that’s not fine. Unfortunately, a lot of people fall into the last category where they hear something that challenges their beliefs and immediately want to censor it. All that does is create enemies by telling people they can’t discuss their views.
It’s an effective tactic, on both sides.
Nobody is trying to control what people think or how they feel. You’re really just being an ignorant fool in every comment you post, aren’t you?
You want give some context here? We don’t even know who is speaking in these screenshots, and to what end. Why would this even be a conversation?
Seems like some open source dev that responds to the “boycott wayland gist” and is against wayland.
Edit: When I wrote the above, I didn’t really realize what Wayland even was
It’s like the systemd argument all over again. SIGH
I’ve filed a report to GitHub on this guy, I assume you did the same but ugh, people suck.
binex-dsk is now shadowbanned on GitHub
I remember back when I thought all FOSS was part of the FSF, and that itself was formed of hippie liberal progressives. Had a rude awakening when I found about the MIT vs GPL rift, and then another on HN when I realised half the people in software were just there to make money.
I had a period where I didn’t really understand the GPL or what it was trying to do. All I knew is that it was ““viral”” (whatever the hell that meant!) and that, supposedly, trying to use it would forever bind you and your creation to who knows what unforeseen legal horrors. I mean, look how long it is! It’s frightening! I wanted absolutely nothing to do with it at first.
Then I got a clue and actually read it. It’s quite straightforward. For almost all serves and purposes it’s basically just MIT plus copyleft. All the legal density is just an effort to squash every conceivable loophole to the copyleft directive. I’m no longer afraid of it, I think it’s pretty cool.
The thing I want to know now is why so many projects think their shit don’t stink and that they need to pollute the FOSS ecosystem with their own stupid permissive license that is functionally identical to the MIT license.
Could be they like the idea of being in control of the license or something like that
So like… and hear me out, software has just changed over time. Way more people use and develop it now, so it kind of makes sense that it would revolve around what most people are interested in. That’s not really hippie liberal progressive stuff. I’m in it for that. I’m all about the GPL. But while we are a relative minority, it’s not like our absolute numbers have dropped or even stagnated.
I’d say we’re growing at a steady pace. I think it happens with pretty much all new forms of art. Look at video games, movies, music, etc.
My simple worldview: The Linux kernel is a good thing. A community driven project that betters the world by putting control into the power of the people, written by the goodwill of developers in their free time, and later, reluctantly by big corps who saw it as a threat too big to ignore.
To my naive self, these were all sure signs that the world was moving progressively to the side of the economic left, born out of a need for a common world computing infrastructure/kernel. Nice people doing nice things for other people. Sharing/caring, etc. etc. I genuinely assumed a strong social left movement dominated computer science.
Again, I was shocked by how many people just wanted to use it to found their startups, not share their code, or not contribute anything back to the frameworks that empowered them.
Unsurprising. I’ve seen a fair amount of people in the Linux community like this.
It’s also quite hilarious to see them frothing at the mouth so much over Gnome getting some money to aid in accessibility improvements lol. Can’t be having the less abled using computers now, can we?
Wait until FOSS nerds learn that the NSA and DoD are some of the top upstream contributors to FOSS projects.
[Completely unrelated to the content] How the heck is this post managing to crash two out of my three lemmy clients?
It’s probably Wayland
Evil Wayland is making their app crash
Maybe they don’t support multiple images at once?
Make sure to report it 🤠
same for me
Jerboah works fine. Really after trying around its the best
Have you tried Eternity?
Yup, makes no sense as I dont need multiple accounts for privacy, yet. And its broken in many features
tl;dr?
Someone is mad that GNOME got a 1 000 000 € grant from the government and is blaming trans people
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Wayland fixes VRR, mixed refresh rate display setups, screen tearing, X11 security bugs AND makes bigots mad? Sign me up! :-)
@Krause @IverCoder You need to go back
Sorry for the Windows emojis lol, I’m on a computer shop as I post this on lunch break
I would never have known if you hadn’t told me. XD
I dont understand, give context, who is binex-dsk and why should I care?
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Well I hate GNOME personally but it’s just because of its philosophy: Opinionated software. They prefer removing choice and forcing users to “use it as it was meant to be used”. I don’t like that because I have my own opinions and I want my software to adjust to me instead of me adjusting to the software. Other people are more inclined to really embracing a product and its methodology but I don’t work that way. But hating software is not the same as hating people. Software is just a ‘thing’.
I moved away from Mac too because it moved ever more in that direction: Removing choice. But I don’t hate GNOME developers or users <3 Just the product. I use KDE instead and am very happy with it. And I don’t care if anyone hates KDE, that’s their choice. Not every product is for everyone and that is OK.
I also don’t like Systemd but I don’t use it either. So it’s fine, they can do what they want and I do what I want. I’m not a team player and not loyal to anyone or anything, just my own opinions.
But I don’t really understand what all this has to do with LGBTIQ+ (which I’m very much in favour of)
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Well I hate GNOME personally but it’s just because…
I think there’s a big difference between having software preferences (even very strong ones) and making the hate of something a personal crusade.
I like GNOME and I don’t really like KDE. But I absolutely, categorically don’t hate KDE; it’s a big project with a lot of high quality contributors and a lot of very happy users. I just don’t really enjoy the design.
I don’t like Mac, but I don’t hate Mac. I really don’t like Windows, but I’m still able to recognise it for the engineering feat that it is. The world is full of things that aren’t my personal favourite, but none of them have done anything to me to elicit genuine hatred.
Wayland, GNOME, systemd and snaps seem to be the unholy quadfecta of obsessive hate in Linux land these days. People seem to practically set their own personal identity against their feelings on these technology stacks. If you don’t like them, just don’t use them…
Wayland, GNOME, systemd and snaps seem to be the unholy quadfecta of obsessive hate in Linux land these days. People seem to practically set their own personal identity against their feelings on these technology stacks. If you don’t like them, just don’t use them…
I agree, but the problem and the reason for my resentment is that some of these are forced on us. Gnome even introduced some dependencies on systemd. Poettering was even quoted as saying that was a good thing because it forced people to adopt systemd quicker. Of course he is a pretty blunt person which doesn’t help liking the stuff he makes. But the backing of IBM/RedHat allows him to get his stuff adopted. For me he is definitely one of the reasons I don’t want systemd.
Snapd can’t be ignored in modern Ubuntu because even an apt-get forces a snap install for some packages. This is the problem for me. I have to keep finding ever more obscure distros to avoid the things I don’t like (and in the end I moved to FreeBSD). Even Arch the most configurable distro of all (you can choose pretty much everything from network stack, partition format, etc) forces you to use systemd now.
This is what powers my anger towards them. And Mac I hate because I feel a bit betrayed by Apple, first making a powerful Unix-like OS with decent GUI which I liked, and them making it more and more mainstream and locked-down like their iOS toys, removing power features and locking many features into their walled iCloud garden. Also reducing options to upgrade Macs, introducing terrible keyboards etc. I used them for years but in the end was forced to leave the platform. It’s a bit like an ex-smoker hating smokers I guess because it reminds them of the misery they dealt with :)
About Wayland: We are constantly bombarded with propaganda that X11 is deprecated and end of life. Even by its maintainers (RedHat as wayland maintainer chose to take over X11 maintenance so they could let it die more easily). This is what I hate. I’m perfectly happy if I can keep using X11. But this is constantly cast into doubt by all this skullduggery. Luckily FreeBSD is much less prone to chasing the new feature on the block than Linux is though.
Where my hate comes from is being forced to adopt something I don’t want to (or people trying to do so). If they would have just made things optional, I would have had zero problems with it. This is why I don’t hate GNOME, I don’t like it at all but it’s fine because whatever distro I choose I can always choose not to use it. I don’t really hate Windows either, in fact I even use it for gaming. But what does make me hate something is having something good and then being forced to see it change into something worse. It’s reactive to this behaviour.
I’m actually pro LGTB and hate Wayland. Don’t make us all look as conservative scumbags. Some of use just hate Red Hat (IBM) because of their big corp nature.
Why do you hate wayland?
Careful you don’t come off as a sealion.
Though this is a thread about Wayland so eh.
This comic never made sense to me. She hates sea lions because they don’t let people talk shit about them. Seems like she’s the problem here in neo london where sapient sea lions live among us. They’re here, get over it.
because they don’t let people talk shit about them
The manner in which you engage in dialogue is important.
Pretending to not understand another person’s viewpoint, and annoying them into compliance, is arguing in bad faith. Arguments in bad faith are malicious deception.
Nobody wants to speak with sea lions because even if you explain in good faith, it won’t amount to anything except your own frustration. A summary of the heart of the sea lion: Arguing with me is pointless. “And now that you’re mad, you’ll know better than to talk shit about sea lions.”
Don’t be a sea lion. You can protest opinions without being manipulative or rude about it.
…do you actually think the sea lion understands why people hate sea lions?
None of this is in the comic.
They must, by definition. So yes. But for the sake of illustration, let’s assume someone who acts like a sea lion isn’t arguing in bad faith, but they aren’t arguing in good faith either. Whether they and unintentionally annoying, or not, ultimately makes no difference to the people around them.
Let’s say a specific oblivious person is combative and persistent. They are not truly trying to understand something, they just want to be right. You try to explain why their responses could be considered rude and prompt self reflection.
A) Will they evaluate themselves and realize what they are doing? B) Will they argue because they insist on being right?
The former is a rude person, but they are someone trying to figure out the world. Whether you engage with them or not, eventually they will realize their actions are causing disengagement. We’re all trying to learn and become better versions of ourselves. This person made some mistakes, realizes it, then changes.
There is no point in engaging the latter. Their lack of self awareness is irrelevant to the outcome and your mental state. Leave them alone, and don’t respond. If you do respond, and they realize they are wrong, but continue: they become a sea-lion if the fake politeness, and troll if they become inflammatory.
Don’t feed the trolls. If they want to, “be right,” they can be alone in thinking they’re right, and you can get back to learning and bettering yourself.
None of this is in the comic.
No satirical comic literally explains the intent of the comic; intent must be inferred based on the events it depicts. Or you can search the internet, Know Your Meme attempts to track culture and context. Yay for them.
Ah, I see, i didn’t realize sea lioning was an established term before that.
The point of the sea lion is persistent argument in bad faith.
The difference between, “prove your opinion,” can be subtle in its difference from, “why do you think that?”
Insinuating someone is badgering and being maliciously dishonest, because they asked for context, is poor etiquette.
I’m absolutely team sea-lion here, did you read that comic?
I mean, just imagine if the sea-lion was a black person…
Damn, imagine having to answer this question every time you say you don’t like something.
Something tells me you don’t ask this when people say they hate X.
By x you mean twitter? Maybe because its very clear and visible why its shit.
With Wayland, not so much. I don’t see any issues with it either, so by asking someone who hates it, why. Maybe that person will mention something i didn’t know yet and see their perspective.
The X windowing system.
Well that’s a weird thing to say then because there are enough people who dislike it and then people ask “why” all the time.
Same goes for Wayland.
Exactly?
I mean yeah, it’s obvious why X/twitter is shit, everyone has the exact same opinion about this.
Why would I ask about that when the answer is obvious? And why would I not ask when the answer isn’t obvious?
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I’m talking about the X windowing system.
There’s also plenty of obvious reasons to hate the X windowing system. Like that it’s unmaintained and going the way of the dodo. Plus learning about a system that is old is less interesting than something that is new. I don’t care about the ways a dead, unmaintained system sucks, so why would I ask?
Yeah, thanks for proving my point.
Your point being…?
If you wanted to know my opinions on X11, you could’ve just asked!
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So do you not use linux then?
I have to, the alternative is Windows, but I’ve also been exploring OpenBSD.