Hi All. I have been watching a lot of House lately, and just started “Extrodinary Attorney Woo”. I am curious to know what you all think of their portrails of Autism. Is it pandering? Representation? Romantisation?
Also see “The Good Doctor”, “Atypical”, “Love on the spectrum” etc.
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Unless you have someone who is incredibly subtle with autism, it’s going to increase prejudice in many cases. For example, if all the autistic characters are weird and don’t make eye contact, it means they’re more likely to not be hired to quickly fired from retail type jobs.
The big bang theory is an abomination
I used to think that show was amazing a long time ago.
In terms of production and acting it’s not bad. The troubling aspect is the charactisation of the neurodivergent experience, as if it’s fun and games for all involved. We’re invited to believe that these scientists are blundering through life, oblivious to their dysfunction. The reality is that people like this are much more likely to be isolated and clinically depressed at the very least.
We don’t have to imagine a TV show where some other marginalised group is mocked because that material is filed in the historical archive, under the ‘unacceptably cruel and bigoted’ category.
She just like me fr
I think lately it’s been nice to see more representation, however I wish there was better emphasis and explanation on why ASD individuals do or don’t do certain things.
For us with ASD, we immediately understand why certain behaviors are exhibited. We also understand why certain things are said, why people with ASD might get quiet in some situations, stimming, and more.
To others, it’s so easy to draw conclusions that the individual is stupid or has bad intentions, when the reality is polar opposite or more complex than that.
For example, with Love On The Spectrum, ASD individuals on a date will appear to:
- Suddenly lose interest
- Not take any initiative
- Unashamedly allow themselves to get distracted
- Say things that seem very inconsiderate
Someone that doesn’t understand ASD might assume the person with ASD is a bad, rude, inconsiderate jerk, maybe intentionally trying to act this way toward the other person. However, someone that does understand will immediately know that the ASD individual has:
- Gone through an observations checklist and considered all factors related to a potential relationship with this person
- Figured out exactly what they do and don’t like about this person’s interests and behaviors
- Methodically determined that the person they are dating will not be a good fit for them
Once someone with ASD has already figured that out, it’s a waste of time, energy, and emotions (as well as a waste of the other person’s) to continue talking with them, and it’s time to move on. It’s a completely different, highly-practical mindset that—although it doesn’t always consider how the other person feels—is well-meaning and has no bad intentions towards the other person.
I might have a different take, there is some pretty poor representation in media. Some of the best examples are not stated out loud. My issue is the discourse around it. Take “I am a surgeon” line from the Good Doctor. If you talk to an Autistic person the common complaint is the acting. Though the online discussion tends to be majority neurotypicals who are mocking the break down itself. There is no context of over stimulation and the disrespect he was feeling from his supervisor or whoever it was showing them.
My problem is all those things you are wondering plus it can be damaging and maddening. If you met one autistic person, who’ve met one autistic person and media does a piss poor job of representing this.
Agreed. I have been noticing more and more characters in shows/movies/games where they don’t explicitly say “THIS PERSON IS AUTISTIC!!”, you can just tell because of the things they do and the way they are. And to me, that’s the best form of representation, but unfortunately the fact these characters are autistic likely flies over the heads of the general populace because it’s never explicitly stated.
Do you have an example of such a character?
Dr. Brennan in Bones
Lilo from Lilo & Stitch
Captain Holt from Brooklyn 99
Peridot from Steven Universe
Futaba from Persona 5 (possibly other characters as well)
Steris from the Mistborn book series
And many more :)
While I know people have complaints about how it sometimes infantilizing and played for laughs et cetera, when I first watched Big Bang Theory back 2007 or so, it felt both like an eye-opener and deeply validating.
Sheldon doesn’t mask. He is not anxious. He is not ashamed of who he is. He never “learns to chill and be normal”. He is helpfully insightful at times. And he retains close friends who repsect him and he keeps a successful career. That was beautiful to see.
It made me believe I could exist as myself.
I know the “front lines” have moved since then, and most people expext more from representation, but I will ever be grateful for what that series gave me.
it felt both like an eye-opener and deeply validating.
Sheldon doesn’t mask. He is not anxious. He is not ashamed of who he is. He never “learns to chill and be normal”. He is helpfully insightful at times. And he retains close friends who repsect him and he keeps a successful career. That was beautiful to see.
It made me believe I could exist as myself.
I felt that way too when I first watched TBBT, since I watched it alone… Then I watched the show with other people in the room and realized that he was the butt of every joke. And from that point on I could never stomach watching the show again. It’s disgusting.
I felt the same about the constant homosexuality jokes about Howard and Raj.
The show just sucks.
Good representations I’ve seen:
- Abed Nadir (Community)
- Tina Belcher (Bob’s Burgers)
- Jonah Byrde (Ozark)
- Woo Young-Woo (Extraordinary Attorney Woo)
These characters all made me feel validated and seen, while not being put in their respective shows only to make fun of them. Sometimes their autism is used to create humorous situations, like Tina and Young-Woo, but it’s never done in a mean-spirited way.
All of the Belchers are great representation, though none are canonically Autistic.
They literally say Tina is autistic in the first episode of the show.
Louise: She’s autistic. She can’t help it.
Tina: Yeah, I’m Autistic.
Hugo: Bob.
Bob: Just a sec. No, you’re not autistic, Tina
Is that the reference? Cause that looks pretty definitively like a child mocking another child and not a diagnosis or canon confirmation. The only other reference in that episode is a callback joke to this bit.
Okay and the same could be said for Abed Nadir or Jonah Byrde, or basically any other character mentioned in this thread. But these characters are all obviously autistic coded in their respective shows. The reality is that show writers are extremely hesitant to make their characters explicitly autistic because then they have to treat that character as an ambassador for Autism.
Cool. See my first comment where I said all of the Belchers were good representation (meaning coded-as and good reps of) but not canonically autistic. So, what point were you trying to make?
Also, Abed is canonically Autistic, just not diagnosed (as per show runners)
I’ve only seen one episode of Woo, and it felt to me like they were treating her autism as a magical attorney super power. I wasnt sure if that was valued representation or not, hence the question. I guess its not wildly different to seeing neurotypical characters with extraordinary abilities. I did enjoy it though, and will keep watching.
Love me some Troy and Abed in the Mooorrrrninngg :D
Woo definitely gets better, but you have to acknowledge that there are some “super power” autism people out there (I personally fall more on that side of the spectrum). That being said, they don’t shy away from the other side of the spectrum and they don’t claim that one kind of autist has more worth than another.
I was friends with a guy in my youth who definitely had savant aspects. Things he was interested in mostly. For example he loved cars. Not motorcycles, not big rigs, just cars.
In a 4 hour car ride he would look out the window and give details about the cars and at the end of the ride you could ask him about car models that we’d seen between certain mile markers. He had it all catalogued in his head and could tell you what order the cars were in, their color, year, options, weight, GVWR, motor type, style, transmission type, really just about anything.