- cross-posted to:
- askburggit@burggit.moe
- cross-posted to:
- askburggit@burggit.moe
Welcome to Ask Burggit, wanted to get it off the ground and make an initial post, and I was kind of curious to see what people would answer.
How did you hear about Burggit?
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Saw a comment saying ban buggit.moe because eww loli. Instantly hit the signup button.
Best form of advertisement we could ever hope for.
I searched for loli/shota communities on lemmynsfw.com to see if they existed there, because didn’t specify if they allow that type of content, and I was curious if they did. I noticed the only two communities that popped up in the search both led here. I clicked apprehensively, because the type of places that allow loli/shota can be a real mixed bag lol.
I was very pleasantly surprised to immediately see the pinned post “Welcome to Burggit! We’re not what you think we are!”. Good sign! Then I saw y’all are explicitly trying not to be like Voat or Kiwifarms, and that’s an even better sign!
I don’t even like lolisho content. It’s just an important ethical issue to me that fictional content that hurts no one should not be treated the same as actual CSAM. And that people who like said content shouldn’t immediately be assumed to be pedophiles. And that pedophiles not be immediately assumed to be abusers/molesters/evil monsters. It’s an issue I’ve accidentally become passionate about. I’m likely to meet people with this same mindset here. So I joined!
Burggit also got a genuine chuckle out of me when I read the DMCA policy on the sidebar. The bluntness is hilarious.
I have to admit I hate the logo for this instance tho lmaoI’m glad the pinned post relaxed your worries! Looks like it’s doing its job! Happy to have you aboard!~ I’m also glad you like the sidebar DMCA thing, I wrote that, and I was… a little sassy with it, I’ll admit, but it amused me, so I kept it. xD
We also have the same mindset when it comes to loli/shota/cub as well as pedophiles not automatically being abusers/evil people. I too have accidentally become passionate about this topic. Kinda nice meeting someone else who is similar.
Ooh, I how echo that sentiment! Tbh the “pedos aren’t automatically evil” thing has become a litmus test of open-mindedness/friendship material for me. If somebody passes that test they instantly gain my respect, because the type of person that can think beyond their own reactive disgust to a topic and end up defending the most hated people in our society simply because it’s the right thing to do, is the type of person I want in my life lol.
I’m curious though, how did you accidentally become passionate about this topic? (You don’t have to answer if you don’t want to.)
I have always been into shota like content, specifically because I like the short male being dominated by the large female. I was ridiculed for this, as well as finding characters who were “underage” (I can’t confirm I never did end up carbon dating the paper 😝). It ended up being a topic I would discuss a lot with people, some changed their minds, loosened their opinion or saw where I was coming from. I found a lot of people just were arguing based entirely on that reactive disgust, like you mentioned. I think that’s kinda how I ended up falling into it.
Pretty much this. Though I tend to be more into the giantess thing. Shota is kind of a turnoff for me but size difference is 👌
FYI, lemmy.burger.rodeo one is an old domain that I’ve set to redirect to the new one. We had no idea that this instance was going to gain traction and once we saw people signing up left and right we decided to switch domains to one that sounded better and had far less chance of being arbitrarily revoked (GoDaddy owns the TLD for .rodeo)
I have to say I 100% agree with you.
I’m not even into loli/shota. Milf content is my thing. But I’m very dedicated to the idea of truth. And the truth is that loli/shota content is way overblown.
If evidence ever comes out that it does harm children then I’ll charge against it, but so far it has as much evidence for that as the video games cause violence thing. And actually a good amount of evidence supporting the opposite. It helps reduce the amount of actual harm by providing an outlet. An outlet that harms no one.
Free speech is another thing I passionately care for. Without it we may as well stick our heads in the sand whenever someone we disagree with comes along, which seems to be the case with a lot of the reddit migrants.
We as a society or people never progress or learn by cutting off communication and discussion, but instead by throwing ideas and beliefs into a gladiatorial ring of scrutiny where the fallacies and lies get shredded to reveal the underlying truth.
As the quote goes “If we collapsed as a civilization, our gods, our beliefs would all disappear and change, but physics and mathematics would be rediscovered and would be the same.” - My butchering of a quote I don’t remember the origin.
The DMCA thing made me actually laugh, lol.
Saw it blocked on beehaw and wondered why since I didn’t see any bigotted shit
Jesus that list ballooned fast. Was only like 6 instances (mostly the tankies/nazis) just last week lol.
They are literally blocking single user’s self-hosted instances for whatever reason lol.
I’m guessing that’s to stop them from becoming spam nodes maybe? I’m betting it goes whitelist only later on, part of the reason why I started looking around a little harder after landing there last week lol. Figured they’d start to enter a sort of walled garden system once the more trolly people figure out how to just spin up instance after instance and keep coming in to say hi everywhere.
Yeah, I’m going to be leaving as well though. I’m not a fan of the pedo shit.
You do you mah dude, definitely not for everyone.
beehaw is apparently going with the hardcore whitelist-only hugbox model.
hopefully people can migrate the useful communities out before the casualties become annoying to deal with.
I found this place on the Lemmy front page list of instances. Like some others have mentioned I’m not here specifically for the type of hentai allowed but I’m against morality policing, especially for fictional content. I think this place will be vilified but as long as you stick by your policies you should see a decent community grow here.
Thank you! That’s the plan, we will not abandon our policies! We are dead set on giving people a place to express themselves and their ideas all ideas freely, so long as they do not participate in illegal activities or things like harassment of groups or individuals.
People keep praising federation and decentralization and yadda yadda yadda without noticing the elephant in the room: The owner of an instance can block other instances, therefore denying its users from contents solely because they choose to do so.
This is extremely problematic for me because an instance is not only a community by itself, but also supposed to be a window into the Fediverse for its users. For those who came from Reddit, can you imagine using a reddit third party client only to find out they don’t allow you to view certain subreddits for whatever reason?
Huge respect to Burggit for having the ball to run a truly “safe and diverse” space for the Fediverse dwellers.
You’re welcome. I fully expect them to pull a Tusky for their Jerboa app if we show up more on their radar. What a crock of shit, the Tusky app hardcodes a blacklist of Pleroma and Mastodon instances so that the end user can’t connect to them. Hence the need for the Husky fork.
Honestly, it’s why I’m trying to jumpstart more diverse but “safe” communities. If it’s nothing but lolis and cubs, the target is clear, but with decent discussion based communities, it becomes a bit more difficult and there’s an argument to be made that they’re not just blocking one type of content, they’re blocking entirely unrelated communities because they don’t like part of what they’re hosting. That bolsters the free speech argument even more when speech they like is inherently intertwined with speech they don’t like.
I want this place to thrive. It doesn’t need to be the biggest, and inevitably zero tolerance types will block it regardless, but I want the decision to censor it to be painful for as many people as possible.
While I think more general purpose communities would be awesome, we honestly should not care what these people think of us. They’ve already got the narrative in their heads that we’re a skinhead nazi instance when that’s far from the case. It does not matter how much we try to prove to them we aren’t one. The guys on r/RedditAlternatives painted me as a right winger, then a fascist, then settled on libertarian.
They did the thing that average redditors do and dug through my profile and found one little meme of me making fun of the WEF and painted me as a horrible person based on that. It was quite funny to watch them short circuit and try to pidgeonhole me into an ideology, though. I personally hate both political parties with a passion and think libertarians are the vegetarians of politics who refuse to shut the hell up. So they got it all completely wrong.
The funny thing is i was in a pretty heavy debate (oddly enough on the KDE subreddit) because i called out righties for making something political that really didn’t need to be, and then the lefties came out in force to swarm me for the single line “I’m no ally to either side”. Oh man, you’d think I started Nazi marching to those people, absolutely no tolerance for someone that refuses to be in full lock step with every line of their bullshit. And then people wonder why I’m no ally to either side. It’s because the “sides” are straight up fucking cults at this point. In a world of, what, almost 8 billion people, things are more complex than 2 “sides”
I read the thread you mention (I did my homework), and I was simultaneously amused and disgusted. Amused at how badly they needed a box to place you in to feel better about their little world view, but disappointed and disgusted that we’re in a timeline and place where people can’t just go “meh, I disagree” and move on. And with civility, but that’s certainly out the window. So much fucking drama over such stupid shit. Seriously.
I don’t have to agree with someone to respect their stance, nor do I need to respect their stance to agree. Anyone can have a good or a bad take. I care not about the messenger, but the ideas presented. The original aim of “anonymous” was to separate the ideas from the identity so each idea could stand on its own merits. It’s a good concept, but instituted by flawed beings that crave attention, it’s doomed to failure. Which is sad, because it’s a good idea.
I could continue ranting (I probably most closely align with the “vegetarians” so clearly I don’t know when to shut the hell up, though admittedly I say I’m small L because I don’t vibe with centralized power over a concept or idea), but I’ll cease for now since I’m already veering vaguely off the original topic…
I am also 100% in favor of general communities, and I fully support your goal and reasoning for it. However, I do have my suspicions as to if it will work or not. A lot of the lemmy instances out there, at least the ones I have seen currently, are exceptionally restrictive as far as their content is concerned. A lot of people won’t look very deep, and will make decisions entirely based on very small bits of information. I think even now, if people bothered to look deeper, they’d see we’re more than just a “right-winger” instance. I don’t know if much if any political stuff has really been posted here at all. And as far as loli is concerned, they can’t see any of the NSFW posts/communities unless they log in or look deeper. So bans on that are entirely based on assumptions and the bit of text that is in the sidebar.
It really does entirely depend on how open others are to take a look at what’s actually on the instance, as opposed to just what they think is on the instance.
Sorry if this is a bit disjointed. It’s very late/early here, so probably not the most cohesive post i’ve made sofar.
Every reddit alternative that I’ve been looking at for the last year had an anti NSFW policy, much less an anti loli policy. This is the first reddit alternative that I have seen that has a open loli policy. I can for sure see why they would block us just because we have porn. I feel the same is going to soon happen to the other NSFW instances if they keep up their non consensual porn like celebrity leaks. I hope we can successfully navigate the narrative and not become early adopters of say, a nazi channel. Or other such extreme indefensible community. One thing I worry about is if your anti-DMCA policy will attract a pirate community that uses this instance as a non-clandestine hard drive for movies and games.
One thing I worry about is if your anti-DMCA policy will attract a pirate community that uses this instance as a non-clandestine hard drive for movies and games.
If this was to happen, they’d be fine hosting, say links to torrent files or what have you. But they’d quickly reach the file size limit if they tried to upload full games/movies on our own servers, causing the upload to fail. So that shouldn’t be a huge issue.
hope we can successfully navigate the narrative and not become early adopters of say, a nazi channel.
This is an interesting one as, technically, it’d be allowed. However, they would likely want to avoid us, since we require users not directly harass or call for the death of specific groups or individuals. This would be… very difficult for that specific ideology to do. They would most likely prefer a different platform, which did not restrict things in this specific manner.
We also have no interest in being another Voat, Gab, Kiwifarms or similar type of site, and we have no issues stepping in if it seems things are starting to head that way.
Hope this addresses and ideally eases these concerns that you have.
I wouldn’t really count on that happening. Poison seeks its own kind and they’ll likely just make their own lemmy instance rather then set here. Especially considering that stuff did actually happen before and it ended miserably for them, when gab tried to open themselves to federation and promptly took themselves after being ridiculed and spammed from many, many sides and circles of the fediverse.
This is also what we believe will happen, those groups of individuals will be more likely to stick with their own kind. We also have a few things in our rules/description that have a very high likelihood of turning away those with extremely radical beliefs.
Yep, 100%. Federation is great, but it usually ends up kind of split between the more free speech/expression/thought instances and the “safe spaces” which refuse to interact with anyone who does not fit inside a very specific ideological box. Lemmy is in a weird position currently, due to the massive reddit exodus, so right now most Lemmy instances are more leaning towards the “safe space” type instances which rule with a Golden Hammer & Sickle.
As more instances which are accepting of varying forms of speech open up, Lemmy will have the actual benefits of the fediverse, which can be seen better on platforms like Mastodon/Pleroma/Akkoma.
As for us, we won’t be blocking/defederating with instances unless they actively post like IRL CP or Terrorism content. So, we’re as open, federation wise, as other instances allow us to be.
We’re happy to provide you with that kind of space. It’s not our job to decide what you can/cant do/say/see. That sort of thing should be your sole decision.
For a different kind of answer: Someone made a post on lemmy ml calling all of you pedos and demanding defederation. I saw that it just meant “Loli allowed” and put it in the back of my mind. Other comments there also dunked on the OP, including one of the admins.
But then I saw this was the home of touhou porn…
I searched for “loli” on https://join-lemmy.org/instances and found your instance.
Going the extra mile for cunny. Respect.
Honestly the same. Most other instances don’t have a description or anything to stand out in that list. This instance has a fun name and a description stating what it is. I prefer a smaller instance with loose moderation over a bigger instance with strict moderation. Loli is also a huge bonus!
I saw that this was one of the first communities to be defederated by beehaw.org, so I clicked on it expecting some nazi shithole or something and was surprised to find it was a perfectly normal looking community. Additionally, as someone who loves Touhou music, I was excited to see some touhou related subreddits like Cirno were here so I joined. While I personally don’t enjoy nsfw art all that much (other than for the memes) and I dislike lolicon content, I treat the acceptance of all types of art as a good benchmark for whether a community truly cares about free speech and am very glad to see that it is not forbidden.
Most of my use of reddit was on FOSS and linux related subreddits so I’ll probably still have to join another instance since a lot of them are currently getting bigger on lemmy.ml/beehaw, but i’m glad to be here too for the anime/doujin/nsfw stuff and I hope to see it grow. It will be amazing if this can grow while respecting free speech but also not turn into an extremist-filled site like Voat did.
That leads me to ask, why do so many instances defederate this community in particular? For instance, lemmy.one as of now lists this as the only blocked community! Why??!! I’m guessing maybe people see that it’s loli friendly and assume it’s a place full of actual pedos without actually looking at the content of the site to see that it’s not.
I really hope that other instances will begin to accept this community. But there will probably be some major shifts in the lemmy world over the next few weeks due to the lemmy.ml shenanigans so who knows what will happen.
We do not aim to be another Voat/Kiwifarms/Gab, to learn more about that, check out this post here: https://burggit.moe/post/5280 We will definitely step in if needed to prevent things going in that direction.
As for why people block us. Lemmy.ml is heavy communist instance, you can not say anything even semi-negative about China, North Korea, or other communist countries over there without an immediate ban. So, we were bound to be defederated from them.
Other instances probably saw we are loli friendly and immediately assumed the worst. A large swath of people think that loli and IRL CSAM/CSEM are essentially the same thing and do the exact same damage, which is, frankly, retarded. << That could be another reason why other instances block us, we have no interest in moderating slurs/offending language so long as people are not directly harassing individuals or groups of individuals directly. This could explain Beehaw’s defederating us, since they are very much as “safe space” instance. Users can’t even make their own communities on there without the higher ups facilitating it.
Hopefully this answers your questions. We’re happy to have you here, and we hope to see you along for the ride as we continue to grow! Enjoy the ride.
A large swath of people think that loli and IRL CSAM/CSEM are essentially the same thing
Doesn’t help that some countries have outlawed lolis, treating them the same as CSAM which I assume would make owners of instances in those jurisdictions hit the defederate button asap to avoid having nuclear material on their hard drive.
we have no interest in moderating slurs
Those people consider boomer to be a slur, so :shrug:
Thank you! Seems like we agree. I’m excited to see what this place will become
That leads me to ask, why do so many instances defederate this community in particular? For instance, lemmy.one as of now lists this as the only blocked community! Why??!! I’m guessing maybe people see that it’s loli friendly and assume it’s a place full of actual pedos without actually looking at the content of the site to see that it’s not.
That would be my impression…
In general whenever the topic of ‘loli’ comes up it’s filled with vitriol and hate by those against it. Honestly, I don’t even hold them being against it against them; It’s something that a lot of people find reprehensible, and is illegal in a lot of places. I can understand not wanting to accidentally come across it.
I just wish these people didn’t assume the worst in those of us into that. The sheer level of vitriol and contempt gets to me, sometimes.
…Well, in any case, it’s most likely the loli thing. That seems to be the justification I’ve seen in most threads talking about defederating burggit, anyway.
I’m of the opinion that they use Loli as the reason just cause it’s the easiest, but if we didn’t allow loli I’m sure it’d be defederated for something else. We’re very lax when it comes to content, allowing pretty much anything so long as it’s legal and doesn’t actively cause problems for our instance or its users. I just think allowing loli gives people an easy out to immediately defederate without having to explain themselves too much. I’m seeing instances become more and more defederation happy as things progress. I can see a split happening, similar to how things are currently on mastodon/pleroma/akkoma. As lemmy instances rise and fall, this will become less of an issue, since no matter which side you are on will have enough federated with you to not be too excluded. Even if for the short term it causes us to be less-federated.
I definitely think that sticking with our policies is far more important than worrying about federation, since what matters most is what our users think of us, not what other users think of us. I saw someone compare this to countries in the past, where you’re going to put the needs of your country over the needs of others. I think that’s fairly accurate for this.
I definitely think that sticking with our policies is far more important than worrying about federation, since what matters most is what our users think of us, not what other users think of us. I saw someone compare this to countries in the past, where you’re going to put the needs of your country over the needs of others. I think that’s fairly accurate for this.
While I would love to see this instance grow, that does make sense. If one wants to see the other stuff that badly, they can join the other instances. There wouldn’t be much of a reason, in my mind, to sacrifice the ‘identity’ of the instance just for that.
Though I may be a bit biased in that regard. Not a lot of forums are labelled as ‘loli friendly’.
As for the other point you mentioned… I could see that. That happened even on reddit, with whole subreddits sometimes banning users who participated in one subreddit or another.
Well you can rest assured we will not be bending or breaking on our policies. That is a promise!
Welcome to #fediblock, the ride never ends.
Pretty much the sentiment from over here: I started looking through all the other popular instances and saw weird-looking Codes of Conduct, and kept going down until I found an instance whose Code of Conduct actually made sense to me. This would be the one.
I don’t personally have a lot of the specific interests in the headline (NSFW and all that), but having a core identity around the concept of “there’s no such thing as a banned idea, just don’t harass people” is big to me.
I’m glad our policy on free expression resonated with you. It’s refreshing to see others who align with this philosophy of ours.
I had been musing about why couldn’t federation take over for reddit going full corporate that Mastodon or Pixmo use be also applied to reddit like environment and was pointed to lemmy.
the top hit on my google search for ‘lemmy federation’ was someone on reddit going nuts about how lemmy is anti-privacy. I got cross-eyed trying to follow their logic, and gave up, and instead of spinning up my own thing I decided to see what was out there.
I used the ‘find an instance’ thing and let me say whoo boy, lot of far left stuff, and far right stuff, funny how the uh, very specific porn stuff one seemed the most open and chill.
I Wasn’t aware it was blocked anywhere, I was just looking for a place that wasn’t too ban-happy and finding ‘this site praises communism’ i was very against joinging one of those. I looked for a place that tried to remain open to discussion about topics, but wasn’t going to be very cess pool-y. I’ll be honest I’m not some firebrand but since I was a kid I’ve been against the crusaders that try and block everything so finding a place that was trying to do the opposite within reason that’s where I figured I’d hang the digital hat.
I admit, I have pretty bland tastes in sexual content being a child of the 80s so I’m not really here to participate there but if that content can make it, then arguging about other things can too. I admit, after serching on what the terms meant and how they were defined I was a little concerned that it went a bit to close to the sun as far as what’s legal here in the US but it’s not my site and I’m not here to yuck your yum.
It’s still very interesting to me that we are currently (from what it seems) the most open lemmy instance. We’re very happy we can serve that purpose! I appreciate you looking past the less than mainstream content we allow on here. I’m happy we’re able to provide a platform for you to feel comfortable expressing yourself, without feeling like you have to walk on eggshells.
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Fun fact: This individual used to be on Burggit and seemed to start spreading lies after we told them not to troll/actively cause problems with other instances. I wonder if there was a correlation there. 🤔
Happy it seemed to work as free advertisement, lol. Welcome to Burggit, hope you enjoy your stay!
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I’m happy we can provide that sort of place for you and others! Wonderful meeting you as well! If you ever need anything, or just want to chat, feel free to give me a ring! :D
saw r/touhounsfw moved here so i checked burggit out and suffice to say its really cool
I’m very happy you’re enjoying it here so far. I hope we can continue to provide a place you feel welcome in!~
i particularly like the loli/shota friendliness and free speech aspect
Just to echo stuff already said here.
I checked out Lemmy a few months after the big reddit refugee wave. Saw some posts about defederation drama. Decided to take a look at the list of banned instances (Love that feature!). Opened a few and immediately knew most weren’t for me, but I’ve never shied away from digging around forums full of awful people or psychos. The “We are not who you think we are!” in the pinned thread caught my eye. Read the post and was pleasantly surprised at everything I saw. Decided to stick around for a bit, been enjoying it so far!
My reasons for picking this as my home aren’t because it’s loli friendly, but also because it is. I’m tired of people getting mad about others opinions and thoughts. I don’t particularly like certain content advertised as welcome here, but that’s the point. I’ll never call for a ban on people having their own places to share their thoughts. I don’t have to like what you say to defend your right to say it, and this instance seems to share this stance. Standing up for unpopular speech is how I found this place. People need to chill and let others exist to share their ideas, good and bad, so people can make up their own damn minds on who they are or aren’t.
Don’t be a dick goes so many ways, including the stripping away of voices from those that others may not like. So here I am. Happy to be here.
Agreed 100% it should not be the job of a corporation, platform or otherwise to decide what you can/cannot see. To decide what you can’/cannot say. To decide who you can/cannot be or who you can/cannot associate with. People should be allowed to think for themselves, make their own decisions about what and who they want to associate with and participate in.
Very glad you found us and we’re happy to have you here. Hope you enjoy your stay!
Exactly. If I dislike something or someone, there’s this magical little button I can push to make it disappear from my screen. I don’t need someone else to push that button for me, so thank you thank you thank you for maintaining sanity in an insane world.
We’re happy we can provide you with a platform that allows you to express yourself in the way you choose to! Instead of being forced to use the ones who make those choices for you.
Amen. Enjoy your stay!
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