To get things started I’ll state my most controversial views.
- I think J.K. Rowling is alright. And that by definition I’m what some would call a “TERF”.
I think there are fundamental differences between men and women, and how one feels doesn’t really change that. Personality traits and mental illness do not change biology.
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I’m an atheist. I’m not convinced of any deities, but that’d be pretty cool to find out if there were any, or any deep answer to the universe for that matter.
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Climate change is a real and present danger, But there’s fuck all I can do about it from an individual standpoint right now.
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Aliens seem like a very real possibility with all the seemingly credible sources lately but I’m not convinced. My best guess is that it’s an intentional thing to mess with other countries.
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I’m nearly a free speech absolutist. I think one should not be afraid to voice their views. And that censorship only hurts human progress.
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The main controversy surrounding this instance, lolis. I don’t care what people beat it to as long as no one is being harmed. Drawings don’t have emotions, bodies, or rights.
To offer an alternate perspective here, I think labeling common parts of the human experience as an illness is an issue in and of itself. It reduces them to a problem to be solved, which, at least in personal experience, isn’t a productive way to approach ‘mental illness’. You can exhaust all the fixes, all the solutions, do everything right, and if it didn’t work? It’s easy to give up. And it encourages a poor way of looking at others, too; people aren’t made of pieces that can be separated out, they’re a single whole that can grow in different directions.
All that’s not to say people shouldn’t seek help and do all the things if they’re hurting, or that there aren’t also positives to giving your problems a name, but I don’t think it’s necessarily a good thing. And to that end:
Like you say people should have a right to talk how they want and treat their own bodies how they want, and I believe people should be able to decide what and what isn’t a problem with themselves. It’s not anyone’s place to say what another adult should and shouldn’t see as something they need to fix. Plus, it’s not like the illness label is applied to all instances of feeling out of place in your body; someone uncomfortable with how tall they are, or short they are, ugly they are, etc etc isn’t considered to have a mental illness by anyone.
Anyway, all that being said, insofar as gender is a social construct it’s not one I particularly support or think is beneficial to society. I think it does more harm than good both in self image and in our image of others. In that way I don’t like how transsexuality reinforces the social framework, even though it does encourage fluidity within the framework. Still, to me, calling it an illness is too far into applying one’s own values to others. People are like oobleck, push and they’ll push back; be still and open to change and so will they.
(I should’ve been a little more clear. Not just feeling uncomfortable in ones own skin. I feel uncomfortable in my own skin all the time depending on the circumstance. I’m talking about the kind of uncomfortable that makes people consider surgery as the only alternative to suicide. I would consider that an illness.)
That is an interesting perspective. It seems totally subjective. Is that what you’re getting at? That what is considered healthy and unhealthy is up to the individual to decide and not whether they meet an objective common standard?
I think an adult has the right to decide what they want treated, but whether or not they’re Ill has to be based upon an external standard or else it’s circular. If I cut off my leg and I’m bleeding out, but insist I’m fine and that this is normal and will go away like a nosebleed, is that a safe assumption? Can I decide what’s actually healthy or not? Or just whether or not I should get help?
I like the oobleck example.
Yeah, that’s the main part of what I’m saying.
But what if that cut-off leg was bitten by a venomous snake? Or it had necrosis? You’re implying cutting off a leg is objectively unhealthy, but there are cases where the opposite is true.
I guess I would consider gender dysmorphia - I think that’s the right term? whatever the trans feeling is called - an illness, in that I doubt many (any?) people who identify as trans would consider it an enjoyable positive; but I don’t think the same can be said about transsexuality as a whole. To use your leg analogy, I would argue the illness is whatever mentally or physically drove someone to cutting off their leg, be it necrosis, schizophrenia, whatever - cutting off the leg (i.e. identifying as trans and/or physically transitioning) could be either a symptom or a cure depending on the individual case. Granted, it may be more likely to be the former statistically, but that doesn’t make it fair or helpful to call those who truly find peace and happiness in their choices ill.
I think the usual term is gender dysphoria. I’ve only ever heard of dysmorphia in relation to self body image issues like hairloss or weight.
I’m implying cutting off a healthy leg is unhealthy. If the leg has necrosis then yeah the healthiest thing to do is to remove it. You seem to understand that as well as I.
I’m not saying one size fits all. I’m saying there’s an objective standard of what’s beneficial to one’s continued existence, and an important factor is balance with quality of life.
Could you expand on this? I’m not sure what you mean.
To put away the confusion. Do we both agree that there is a generally common state of well being that is considered healthy? That health is not entirely subjective and that there are common variables for human well being? I.e. putting your hand in lava is not beneficial?
Depends on if that includes mental health - how is mental health judged? Depending on who you ask it could be happiness, success, ability to give joy to those around you, spiritual fulfillment, inner peace. Some are mutually exclusive, plus thoughts, emotions, and experiences all raise some while lowering others in a mix depending on the instance.
Physical health pretty linear with some clear ways to quantify it though. So physical health yes, mental health no.
Is health subjective?
I gave it some more thought and I’m changing my answer to yes to both physical and mental. Mental for the reasons above, physical - well, while there’s a pretty universal idea of what being healthy physically means, the scale between that and physically unhealthy isn’t as linear is it first seemed to me. Is it healthier to lose your thumb or your index finger? Is being deaf healthier than being blind?
So, yes.