I asked for a source or evidence. You provided a statement made by Imran Khan himself. A statement by a politician claiming that the US backed a coup in Pakistan is not evidence.
Edit: Why are people downvoting? Do you guys take politicians’ statements as fact now? What is your bar for evidence?
It’s pretty much been confirmed because Imran Khan released parts of the message that match the version the intercept received much later, of which I already pointed out he was charged with breaking the state secrets law.
Lu was very set on wanting Imran Khan gone via the NCV. This cable wasn’t meant to negotiate anything with Imran Khan or even tell him to rectify his stance on Ukraine. He said clearly that ties with Washington deteriorated and would only be restored if IK was removed.
More importantly, the cable was directed towards the Pakistan army who has the ultimate power in Pakistan (and incidentally has been bribed several times before). They did as they were asked and helped the NCV succeed by helping the opposition bribe and coerce party members to swap sides overnight. Then, they swiftly arrested IK, banned PTI as a political party, tortured and killed their party members, assassinated some journalists, shutdown the internet, banned Twitter, and called it a day.
It’s nothing new for the USA or even Pakistan, it’s just that this was probably the first grassroots populist party in Pakistan to ever get a chance at running the country and it lasted all but 5 seconds because that invovled the idea of foreign sovereignty which is something the USA doesn’t like.
They can and will use whatever means necessary to keep their leverage in the global geopolitical scene.
I read the content of the transcript. A lot of leaps are being made from one diplomat’s statements. Lu simply said they don’t want to cooperate with a leader that is rubbing shoulders with Putin and it’s perfectly reasonable considering a) Pakistan is the recipient of US foreign aid b) Putin is doing his best to annex every territory around Russia that he can before anyone stops him. Whatever Pakistan did to oust him needs further proof that it is directly caused by US interference. I haven’t seen that yet.
Edit: you know what guys; this one politicians claims and a random cable is all we need. No further proof needed. American imperialism genocide colonialism western hegemony – did I get all the poli-sci 101 buzzwords in yet or did I leave any out? Someone needs to create an ‘america bad’ phrase generator already. That is the sum of discourse on Lemmy after all.
Is it from the last fifty years? Because if it’s Venezuela, Nicaragua, etc thats all agreed on. If you’re going to refer to that, then I get to apply the same logic and find fault with every other country in the world–we don’t get to pick and choose who we like. It doesn’t work like that. This is still an extraordinary claim for an event that happened last year.
I’m not offended. I didn’t even grow up in the US. I just hate the low effort and poor media literacy on social media. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The whole “America bad” is a worthless schtick intended just for virtue signaling.
In my experience, anyone that has ever said “you need to read more” has either a) no substantive argument to make b) is equally ignorant on the topic at hand. I have yet to be proved wrong, such this lovely example right here. You guys are only interested in grandstanding. Which is fine, grandstanding makes you feel good, so you do you.
Really, someone physically in the space with direct experience of the event in question is not evidence? It’s because he’s brown and worships a god from the wrong part of the world, isn’t it?
I asked for a source or evidence. You provided a statement made by Imran Khan himself. A statement by a politician claiming that the US backed a coup in Pakistan is not evidence.
Edit: Why are people downvoting? Do you guys take politicians’ statements as fact now? What is your bar for evidence?
Leaked cable:
https://theintercept.com/2023/08/09/imran-khan-pakistan-cypher-ukraine-russia/
IK being charged by attempting to disclose the secret cable:
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/ex-pm-imran-khans-leak-secret-cable-hurt-pakistan-court-ruling-2024-02-01/
Wow. So i read the full transcript. A few points.
We don’t know where this document originated and the intercept has not authenticated it (they at least claim as much)
Nothing Lu said is out of line. Which part do you take umbrage with? Khan is definitely putting his spin on this.
It’s pretty much been confirmed because Imran Khan released parts of the message that match the version the intercept received much later, of which I already pointed out he was charged with breaking the state secrets law.
Lu was very set on wanting Imran Khan gone via the NCV. This cable wasn’t meant to negotiate anything with Imran Khan or even tell him to rectify his stance on Ukraine. He said clearly that ties with Washington deteriorated and would only be restored if IK was removed.
More importantly, the cable was directed towards the Pakistan army who has the ultimate power in Pakistan (and incidentally has been bribed several times before). They did as they were asked and helped the NCV succeed by helping the opposition bribe and coerce party members to swap sides overnight. Then, they swiftly arrested IK, banned PTI as a political party, tortured and killed their party members, assassinated some journalists, shutdown the internet, banned Twitter, and called it a day.
It’s nothing new for the USA or even Pakistan, it’s just that this was probably the first grassroots populist party in Pakistan to ever get a chance at running the country and it lasted all but 5 seconds because that invovled the idea of foreign sovereignty which is something the USA doesn’t like.
They can and will use whatever means necessary to keep their leverage in the global geopolitical scene.
I read the content of the transcript. A lot of leaps are being made from one diplomat’s statements. Lu simply said they don’t want to cooperate with a leader that is rubbing shoulders with Putin and it’s perfectly reasonable considering a) Pakistan is the recipient of US foreign aid b) Putin is doing his best to annex every territory around Russia that he can before anyone stops him. Whatever Pakistan did to oust him needs further proof that it is directly caused by US interference. I haven’t seen that yet.
Edit: you know what guys; this one politicians claims and a random cable is all we need. No further proof needed. American imperialism genocide colonialism western hegemony – did I get all the poli-sci 101 buzzwords in yet or did I leave any out? Someone needs to create an ‘america bad’ phrase generator already. That is the sum of discourse on Lemmy after all.
Honestly, we should assume us interference until proven otherwise.
Honestly, we should rely on solid evidence. Exceptional claims require exceptional evidence.
That’s the thing. They aren’t exceptional claims. Would you like a list of democratically elected governments that have been toppled by the US gov’t?
Is it from the last fifty years? Because if it’s Venezuela, Nicaragua, etc thats all agreed on. If you’re going to refer to that, then I get to apply the same logic and find fault with every other country in the world–we don’t get to pick and choose who we like. It doesn’t work like that. This is still an extraordinary claim for an event that happened last year.
Maybe don’t be so offended when people rightly criticize your country. You didn’t choose to be born there.
I’m not offended. I didn’t even grow up in the US. I just hate the low effort and poor media literacy on social media. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The whole “America bad” is a worthless schtick intended just for virtue signaling.
Lol then you need to read more.
In my experience, anyone that has ever said “you need to read more” has either a) no substantive argument to make b) is equally ignorant on the topic at hand. I have yet to be proved wrong, such this lovely example right here. You guys are only interested in grandstanding. Which is fine, grandstanding makes you feel good, so you do you.
Really, someone physically in the space with direct experience of the event in question is not evidence? It’s because he’s brown and worships a god from the wrong part of the world, isn’t it?
The downvotes are because of your petulant whining.
Asking for evidence is “whining”. Gotcha.
No, no, the whining is the whining.
Removed by mod
Hahaha are you trying to make a new copy pasta or something