• Sanctus@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Thats unfortunate. I’ll be moving instances then. Giving Meta a chance is a lot like giving a mosquito a chance to not suck your blood.

        • bluefirex@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          This behavior is why the fediverse alienate users and makes it hostile for new people to join.

          They didn’t do anything, yet. Give them the chance but start with 2 strikes on their account already. They fuck up, THEN you defederate. Innocent until proven otherwise.

          Edit: go on, downvote me. Show me your face. Show me how you’re all against growth on Lemmy and niceness to each other.

          • Ulu-Mulu-no-die@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Innocent until proven otherwise.

            There are many years of proof already about facebook/meta acting very maliciously, actively breaking laws and being fined for it, is that not proof enough? How many more do you need before you can say they’re not innocent at all?

          • Pyro@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Innocent until proven otherwise.

            Corporations like Meta have shown time and time again that they cannot be trusted to play nice with anyone else. Have we already forgotten about Cambridge Analytica or the plethora of other scandals they’ve been at the center of? The proof has been in plain view for a while now.

            • bluefirex@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              They don’t get more data because they’re federated. They literally the exact same amount of data as they do know just by scraping mastodon or Lemmy. They’re an even player in this market. Somehow you all keep forgetting that. If you don’t want meta do have data from activity pub, you being here already violates that ideal.

              • Pyro@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Okay, but that doesn’t address any of the points I brought up.

                You said to give Meta a chance. The rest of us are broadly gesturing at all the shit they’ve done in the past, and how we want as little to do with that as possible.

                • bluefirex@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  There is nothing they can do to fuck up your experience, ESPECIALLY on Lemmy though. Threads is a completely different concept from Lemmy and activity pub is well defined.

                  The only thing they could do is just not moderate threads and therefore putting spam in everyone’s feeds. That’s about it. I don’t think they’re leaving that unmoderated.

          • Ben Hur Horse Race@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            If you disagree with me, we’ll then you’re just against niceness, admit you are! Admit you’re against niceness!

  • Move to lemm.ee@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    This is not particularly surprising. Lemmy was started as an anti-corporate project by leftists after /r/chapotraphouse got quarantined and later banned (subreddit for the most popular podcast and most donated patreon at the time), with the explicit goal of preventing corporate control from being able to silence leftists when they’re blasting off. CTH was skyrocketing in subscribers at the time it was quarantined on August 8th 2019, and when even quarantining didn’t stop its growth or slow down its activity afterwards Reddit pulled the plug under the excuse it promoted violence, but the only particularly edgy thing ever said there was “slave owners should be killed” and support for John Brown. This evolved post-ban into the assessment that Spez banned it because he wants to own slaves.

    When that happened there was a massive shift in the leftist parts of reddit as we very quickly realised we’d be targeted if reddit ever deemed us to be too successful, and projects like Lemmy began in reaction. CTH’s community in fact moved to Lemmy 3 years ago, and resides on Hexbear.net but has not yet joined the rest of federated lemmy due to technical issues (it used to be a fork with a different front end).

    Given lemmy’s specific anti-corporate origins seeing Lemmy.ml do this should surprise nobody. It’s the correct move anyway.

    • Nobody@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Always love to hear the deep lore. Lemmy’s early development makes a lot more sense now. Good on them(you) to leave everything open and learn from Reddit’s mistakes.

      Still, free and open has a limit. No Facebook and no Nazis. That’s just common sense everyone used to have.

        • Serdan@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          I have this theory that people who complain about everyone being called nazis, have themselves been called a nazi.

          Why do people call you a nazi, hmm?

          • dustojnikhummer@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            So you admit that Antifa are as Nazis like Maga are? Or are rightoids worse for some arbitrary reason again?

            • Move to lemm.ee@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Antifa are not ultranationalists. The vast majority are anarchists and communists, which are internationalist ideologies. Literally the polar opposite.

            • feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              You could call them an authoritarian paramilitary group, but they’re not nazis. That doesn’t automatically make them good, it’s just that nazism is a specific political ideology.

                • feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  I’ve yet to meet an anarchist following anything like a coherent ideology in that respect. They all seem very eager to impose themselves on others. I suppose one guy took a more academic position, but still seemed to idolise violence. Maybe the authority is decentralised, but frequently wielded as explicit force. Not far from libertarianism in that regard. Doesn’t appeal.

    • Quokka@quokk.au
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      1 year ago

      Not leftists, Stalinists; The sort of people who end up killing all the other leftists any chance they think they might be close to taking power.

      • Move to lemm.ee@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Mate I do not give a flying fuck what any of these people with zero power are. I care about actually achieving shit. Fortunately I live in the UK where this bizarre sectarianism has absolutely no presence, thank fuck for that.

        If you lived in the UK you’d be against the head of the RMT union currently striking the UK railroads, who publicly calls James Connolly his political hero and is an obvious marxist-leninist. You’d be against Jeremy Corbyn, because he defends the Soviet Union and always has, he also promotes the Black Panthers who defended north korea (if you look in the corner of the video around 2:00 there’s even a cute little soviet cccp statue). You’d be against Diane Abbott, because she’s publicly defended Mao on national television. You’d probably find something to be against John Mcdonnell who has said his job is to overthrow capitalism on the BBC, probably because he’s quoted Mao and read his little red book in parliament?

        My point here is that you’ve got to get a grip. We don’t do this bizarre shit over in the UK because there’s literally no point, there is no communist revolution just around the corner, the conditions do not exist for it. What matters is what we can achieve RIGHT NOW, when a revolution is actually on the cards then we can decide what that revolution should actually fucking look like. In the meantime these people are all mild lukewarm elected MPs as socdems that just want to give people more welfare and improve basic living standards, but you would call them evil tankies for any of these things.

        If you don’t build at least SOME power now you will have absolutely none when the conditions deteriorate enough for a real revolution, and if that is the case it will be fascism that wins, not any sect of the absolutely non-existent left in your country.

        What you’re viewing above is how radical you need to be just to establish and maintain lukewarm european welfare and social safety nets. Get that into your head and you might actually stop the aussie government dumping migrants into concentration camps and help improve people’s lives for fuck’s sake. You should know better than this anyway, half the union leadership of australia are marxist-leninists, and the other half are trots. What union are you in? I’ll tell you whether you need to throw your union leader under the bus for some fucking do-nothing liberal because of your sectarianism obsession. Are you even in one?

        • Quokka@quokk.au
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          1 year ago

          Are you saying the UK, you don’t have leftist factionalism? Fucking get off it mate.

          • Move to lemm.ee@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Not really among the actual leftists. There is a conflict between the neoliberal starmerites who fake being left and the actual leftists that he has been purging so hard it puts stalin to shame, there is barely any fighting among the actual UK left because we do not give a fuck. I don’t fucking care what the person next to me on the roof of an Israeli weapons factory believes, I care that he’s going to have my back when the cops show up. I do not care what the person next to me on the picket line believes, I care that they’re fucking there. If you said this shit in person at an event you’d get knocked out or if you’re lucky sidelined and ostracised by just about every group in the left for being a wrecker whose goal is clearly not to help but to divide.

            Very very rarely there is some extremely cringe jabs between the trots and the MLs, but not particularly often because there’s no fucking point. The anarchists are ironically the least sectarian, simply caring that people show up when the hunt sabos need it because there’s fuck all people in the countryside as it is to be picky about what kind of leftist someone is. Everyone shows up for everyone’s events, because having a left is far more fucking important than arguing over 100 year old cringe while workers lives are being made worse NOW. All you’re doing with this shit is helping capitalists by weakening leftists.

            And you didn’t answer my question about what union you’re in?

            • MentallyExhausted@reddthat.com
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              1 year ago

              You have to understand that under a Presidential system we do not have the political capability of forming a Marxist-Leninist or Anarchist party. We have two parties and the first-past-the-post system guarantees that only two parties will ever be politically relevant.

              As a result, it is political poison for left-leaning folks to associate with Marxist-Leninists. That isn’t a popular political ideology here and we are not going to win elections with that label.

              Bernie made some progress on that front, but in the USA our coalition calls themselves Progressives and shies away from the scary communist and ML labels. But the (few) people who would call themselves that are still in the tent, we just prefer that they not poison the messaging with unhelpful, unelectable rhetoric.

              • Move to lemm.ee@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                What are you on about there are multiple growing ML parties in the US. PSL does excellent work.

                You’re obsessed with electoralism, you have no understanding that the goal of MLs has literally nothing to do with electoralism. You can not establish socialism by winning elections, it has not happened and it will never happen. The furthest left possible through electoralism is socdem shit and the american ruling class already proved they won’t even allow that anymore.

                All you can think of is elections and whether it’s possible to win percentages. Your brain is goo. You’re completely stuck in the mindset of american civil religion, believing only in institutional paths for anything in everything. This is an uneducated mindset to politics. The biggest gains are always won in the streets. What’s wild about this is that americans have the civil rights movements and have watched lgbt people change things in the last 50 years entirely through actions in the streets and still have no idea what politics means outside of electoralism. It’s like a country of children.

  • jafo@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    (Apparently) Unpopular Opinion: I think defederating Threads is the wrong move, because it just locks people into Threads. If people on Twitter had the ability to move to Mastodon AND still interact with all the people they did before, I think we would have seen even more people move. The only reason I still check twitter at all is because I have a few close friends who didn’t move. Meta is likely going to have big adoption of people who aren’t ready to go to Mastodon, but are interested in getting out of the dumpster-on-fire that twitter seems to continue to be. But blocking those people from being able to join the more popular Lemmy instances, given no actual policy violations, just will keep people in Meta that otherwise could leave. With the “however” being: It’s not quite clear to me that Threads users will be interacting with Lemmy as much Mastodon, if Threads were a Reddit replacement, it’s more directly connected.

  • nyternic@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Look, Mark has royally screwed up Facebook. Any respect or honor with the guy has long been lost. Why even give him a second chance when it’s obvious he’s going to do the same thing with Threads?

    His Metaverse failed. His Facebook/Meta thing failed.

    He is a huge red alert to be involved or close to the very things we’re trying to recover and escape to from things he has contaminated. Why chance associating with him?

  • fross@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    It’s not about Zuckerberg, it’s about the userbase. With something that grew to 30 million users literally overnight, it’s impossible to determine what it will be like, and how it will mesh with the existing fediverse content/users.

    With something this scale, it only makes sense to secure and observe - pre-emptively block, watch the content, maybe even poll the users on what should be done. There is nothing to be lost this way, it’s only a cautious approach towards a potential later link.

    What could be lost is the Threads community overwhelms the lemmy community before there is a chance to react (it is 1000x bigger, after all). It makes sense to be cautious, here.

    This isn’t inconveniencing anyone, any user can make an account on Threads as well and use both right now.

    • lagomorphlecture@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I don’t think threads actually has 30 million users. They have some paid shills, probably a lot of their own bots, some people who legit joined to see what it was about, and a bunch of Instagram users who had accounts created automatically. I’m not positive about the last point but if you can’t delete threads without deleting Instagram then I’m sure they’re going to leverage their Instagram userbase as much as possible here.

    • Ulu-Mulu-no-die@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      If I wanted to see facebook shit I would use facebook, I stopped using whatsapp when it was bought by facebook, I don’t want to see their content overwhelming the fediverse, that’s why I’m here instead of there.

      • fross@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        I don’t agree with this notion of “facebook content” vs “fediverse” content or anything like that. Content is just content, it’s links, it’s media, whatever. It’s not “facebook shit” any more than reddit shit or lemmy shit. Content is a by-product of the users, so who/what the userbase is is extremely important - and that is why how it is marketed, who it appeals to and so forth, and the relative scale. thousands of lemmy users being drowned out by millions of Threads users, who are a different demographic, have different goals for the platform, and so forth, is the real issue.

        You acknowledge that you have moved on from platforms when facebook/meta have got involved, and you’re welcome to take your decisions on this, but it runs into problems in a federated environment where the goal is to increase interoperability by default.

        Don’t get me wrong, I think our goals are the same, to have an environment where people can talk and share links that is relatively exclusive / for like-minded people. I just don’t think the angle of facebook/not facebook is the right one (tbh I would go further - I would not integrate, but not because of the provenance/company, but because of the users’ expectations coming over from Threads)

        • Ulu-Mulu-no-die@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Content is just content, it’s links, it’s media, whatever

          Content is not all the same, there’s quality content and there’s shitposting.

          “facebook content” is mostly - to me - shitposting, astroturfing, botting, propaganda, etc. as reddit has become lately, while lemmy content is mostly quality discussions.

          I don’t want shitposting burying quality content here, that’s what will happen if we don’t do anything about it.

          Not to mention corporate control, look what happened to reddit, and look at how many scandals there are about faceboook (now meta) as a company, why do you think they want to join the fediverse, they don’t give a crap about quality, their only interest is in monetizing stuff, embrace - extend - extinguish, I don’t want ANY of that happening to lemmy.

    • God@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      Fun thoughts and all but that isn’t the reason why they’re blocking it. It’s because Facebook is bad. Corporation, big, embrace, expand, extinguish, evil. Plenty of explanations around about why these blocks happened. However you’re also right. If it were very small like a 15k people instance and it didn’t carry corporations inside maybe they’d consider not blocking.

  • Victor Gnarly@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    So that settles it. We have an option if meta federated and it goes to shit. Lemmy.world’s stance is correct. Let’s just see how this goes.

    • AwkwardLookMonkeyPuppet@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      You don’t wait and see how it goes with these sorts of things. They will destroy the community before you can take action and it’ll be too late. They will do their best to destroy the fediverse and privatize it. They can’t buy it like they usually do with competition, so they’ll ooze their way in, contribute bullshit to the project, create new proprietary functionality that only works on their instance, convince everyone all the other instances are broken, and walk away with all the users. You don’t invite vampires into your house.

      • Ech@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        You’re linking your own post about assuming what the admins in .world have done as if it’s definitive proof. After a definitive statement is made one way or the other, then you can start freaking out. Until then, just stop it with the conspiratorial garbage.

        • Melco@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I disagree strongly with your assessment and find your characterization of a fellow Lemmy users opinions as “garbage” to be distasteful.

          The .world admins inaction, and refusal to provide any communication at all on the situation despite half a dozen treads and hundreds of comments of users seeking clarification speaks volumes about the admins intent and is frankly disrespectful to the needs of the. world user community.

          Meta is a known bad actor creating real harm in the world. Associating with people like that is perilous. In a dangerous situation, it is often wiser to take proactive action than to wait around and just “see what happens”.

    • guyman@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Yay censorship and users not being able to make decisions for themselves!

      Yay emotions!

        • guyman@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          No they aren’t. Users literally do not have the power to choose which instances they see. They have to rely on their instance admins or make their own instance.

          • Apex_Fail@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            You know you can choose another instance, or, Ya know, make a threads account.

            Personally I don’t want any sponsored posts here.

    • BattleGrown@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Yes please! No more power to evil corporations. I don’t want my server to add interaction to them and help drive their agenda.

      • Haggunenons@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        I clicked this link in the Jerboa app and it opened into my browser where I wasn’t signed in. Is it not possible yet to have lemmy links automatically open into the Jerboa app or is there a setting somewhere that I am missing?