sorry i got my rhetoric ™️ wrong last time i am just attempting to illustrate the thesis of Tolerance is not a moral precept by Yonatan Zunger so check that out if ur curious thanks babes <3
[Tolerance] is an agreement to live in peace, not an agreement to be peaceful no matter the conduct of others. A peace treaty is not a suicide pact.
Interestingly enough, international waters work by a similar concept. A lot of people think no laws apply in international waters, but that’s not the case. Anyone sailing there picks a country whose laws they will follow.
But what happens if you don’t pick a flag and just decide you’re not going to follow any laws?? Well then you’re not protected by any laws either. Your ship can be sunk or seized by anyone and there isn’t anything you can do about it because you decided you wanted to exist outside of any laws.
Tolerance works a bit like that. If someone choses to live outside of tolerance and just do what they want to others, then they forfeit their right to be protected by tolerance.
this is a cool fact and a valuable contribution to the conversation thanks homie ☺️
Dude the paradox of tolerance is literally saying we shouldn’t tolerate in tolerance.
But who defines what intolerance is or what subjects are ok to be intolerant of? Whoever has the most social or political power at the moment? That sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Bro you’re thinking way too hard it’s literally just saying don’t be a bigot
I’d argue that others aren’t thinking hard enough. People want to establish these new rules to have things be the way they want them, even if it means suppressing free speech to get it. That’s all well and good until your side loses power and your speech is suppressed.
I agree, don’t be a bigot, but stop at equality for everyone, not suppression of those you may disagree with. That sends us right back down the bad path. I’m not saying you said that here, but I see it a lot these days and it worrisome.
Now hold on. Nobody said not tolerating meant suppressing. It means opposing.
That… that’s bigot rhetoric, and is full circle to the issue here. “You can’t call me out for using the N word because MAH FREE SPEACH”
I agree with you about free speech – and I would also argue that it extends to forums wanting freedom to choose what they contain.
There’s always other forums. Private forums controlling their content isn’t silencing. That’s not how it works.
40% of Millennials are onboard with limiting free speech.
That’s an alarmingly high number. I’m not “pro” offensive speech against anyone, but having the government limit it… that’s a whole different conversation. I think a lot of younger people aren’t making that distinction and are willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater. That worries me. Free speech is there to protect ideas from whatever the prevailing status quo at the time is… Galileo was found guilty of heresy, was banned from teaching, and sentenced to house arrest, because he said the Earth went around the Sun. Without free speech, how would people speak out against and challenge what they see as wrong with those in power?
You’re trying to tie a different issue to the discussion here and it’s simply non sequitur.
We’re not talking about restricting speech at a legal level, we’re talking about opposing bad speech with good speech or by cultivating private fora where good speech is encouraged and bad speech discouraged.
You literally jumped down the pitfall of the rhetoric of the bigoted folks that I alluded to. Excellent aim, wrong target.
I think the distinction needs to be more clearly made, which is why I was trying to make it. A lot of people talk about opposing bad speech, and while you and I may believe that should only be at the social level, not a legal one, 40% of Millennials are missing that distinction, as it’s one that is rarely called and and just assumed people “get it”. Those assumptions lead to poor conclusions, those conclusions lead to action, and we lose our rights. I don’t think being clear about where the line is drawn is ever a bad thing.
People with less than pure motives can make a very compelling argument for suppressing speech to people who aren’t aware of the pitfalls. Schools used to teach this, but based on the statistics, it seems like the message is getting lost.
You cannot have equality for everyone if you allow intolerance to exist. You have to be intolerant to the intolerant in order to preserve a tolerant society.
but stop at equality for everyone, not suppression of those you may disagree with
Equality for everyone requires the suppression of those who would take away that equality, otherwise you eventually lose equality for everyone. This is similar to how maximizing freedom for everyone requires restricting your individual freedom to harm others, because in doing so you remove their freedoms. Your individual freedom is less, but the total amount of freedom in the system is greater for it.
Furthermore, it is not a moral failing, or even a difficult moral quandary, to suppress people for their actions and choices. We do it all the time to murderers and other criminals, or even people who don’t shower. This can be done in multiple ways, including ways that do not involve state power. We frequently use social means to suppress people, for good or bad. A society simply works that way. And if they don’t like it, they can simply choose to stop trying to take away equality; I cannot similarly choose to stop being the kind of person they want to take equality away from.
To protect equality we must win every fight; to lose it, they need only win once. Everybody is protected by equality so long as they believe in it. I do not believe that those who do not believe in equality should be extended its benefits, for they will seek to destroy it from within like a parasite.
I thought the article did a pretty good job of addressing those points
BuT dIsAgReEiNg WiTh HuMaN rIgHtS iS jUsT aN oPiNiOn, So YoU aReN’t AlLoWeD tO bE mEaN tO fAsCiStS wHo ArE aDvOcAtInG fOr A fUcKiNg GeNoCiDe!1!
my first exposure to the paradox its ambiguity was being used as an excuse to platform literal nazis on the basis of “being mean makes you the oppressor ☹️☹️☹️”
i for one welcome a philosophy that is more concrete and specific and doesn’t allow for such openings. tolerance as a contract does that for me. though as this comment section shows trying to express this position gets you labeled as maga so huge L for me i guess.