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Because Putin is bankrolling two or three minor political parties and the front runner of a major political party. That fucking anti-war protest in DC was the dumbest shit. Yeah let’s have two political parties that agree on absolutely fucking nothing except for hating Ukraine co-host an event where Ron Paul’s bitch ass makes up stories about how congresspeople told him that they needed to start a war to fix the economy while some limpdick tankie waves the Soviet flag around in the background
Most people posting as tankies today aren’t tankies.
As someone who has done extensive reading in modern Marxism, Rawlsian doctrine, anarchism both historical and modern, and so on and so on (and yes that was a Žižek reference), many of those posting as far leftists are coming from wholly self-constructed positions. They’re either deliberately playing the role of an agent provocateur or they’re people who have unwittingly become broadcast nodes with the same effect.
Tankies on Lemmy are 100% right wing trolls pretending to be leftists. They aren’t even trying to hide it at this point.
One of them on chapotraphouse said “I’m gonna vote for Trump just so see the US finally burn to the ground” and I replied “horseshoe theory: confirmed” and the mods removed my comment lmao
I’ve had one case on lemmy.ml where they deleted many of my comments but kept the brigading comments responding.
There are definitely lines that some mods will defer to one side.
I opened accounts on multiple instances due to the instability (and information propagation dynamics) of individual ones. I figured “why not?” I had several Reddit accounts, after all, and it just seemed to make sense.
I thought lemmy.ml was for machine learning. The UI I was using didn’t include self-descriptions.
Someone accused me of denying the Holocaust because I said Poland didn’t invade the Soviet union
I got a ban on Lemmy for “genocide denial” for saying the Russian invasion of Ukraine had traits of genocide.
These people are shockingly propagandized.
Crazy how tankies support Russia (despite them not even being communist, domestic abuse, treatment of gay people, and ties with conservatives). And are just okay with Russia killing entire villages of Ukraines because their supposed Nazi government (didn’t let a Russian puppet in government).
maoism-third worldism: an infantile disorder
A lot of us leftists also disavow tankies entirely, they don’t represent us.
They’re either deliberately playing the role of an agent provocateur or they’re people who have unwittingly become broadcast nodes with the same effect.
That’s… a tankie, at least functionally. If they’re spouting the propaganda, I don’t care where it came from or whether it’s officially certified as doctrine.
Cosplay communists. They don’t actually believe in communism, they just like the esthetic and being contrarian.
Ah, yes, the myth of “real Communism”.
At this point I think he’s probably bankrolling a lot more than just the front runner.
We’ve known that for close to a decade now. Let’s not forget that a bunch of traitors spent July 4th in Moscow and that Paul Ryan said that trump and a few others in Congress were getting paid by russia
When I cleared out my grandma’s attic there were her ww2 correspondence letters with soldiers on the front.
I was not prepared for the amount of american soldiers writing about how wonderful Hitler was and we shouldn’t be at war in Europe because the real enemy were the Reds.
“Heil Hitler and Fuck the Reds!” is a line from one.
It really put the inevitability of the Cold War into perspective.
America joined the war in Europe to prevent the Soviet Union from spreading communism.
Pearl Harbor may have also been a factor, but there is definitely something to that.
America was hoping to grind them both to dust with each other. And largely that was successful. The Eastern Front was a hellscape of death.
Pearl Harbor was a Japanese response to the American blockade and shipping operations in the pacific during the war.
The tonnage war certainly started well before that. Lend Lease act to the USSR was in place for nearly a year beforehand even.
That’s significantly different from putting boots on the ground in Europe which was going awful for America until Stalingrad and the point I was trying to make about Pearl Harbor was that the Japanese command knew it couldn’t beat America outright and was trying to establish the territories that would constitute the Japanese empire after the war ended.
The pacific theater was Japan trying to get America to say “you know what? Fine! Have some little shitty islands!”
I’m assuming America’s #1 enemy is other Americans who don’t look or behave like them.
This is really nitpicky. When there is war, there is anti-war protest.
Yeah these guys weren’t anti war. They were pro Hitler.
Kind of like the GOP is pro Putin.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/emma-goldman-preparedness-the-road-to-universal-slaughter
"Forty years ago Germany proclaimed the slogan: “Germany above everything. Germany for the Germans, first, last and always. We want peace; therefore we must prepare for war. Only a well armed and thoroughly prepared nation can maintain peace, can command respect, can be sure of its national integrity.” And Germany continued to prepare, thereby forcing the other nations to do the same. The terrible European war is only the culminating fruition of the hydra-headed gospel, military preparedness. "
Eh, military unpreparedness, to compare, leads to becoming a victim.
And (some) democracy, (relative) equality and all that (including trade and peaceful life being perceived as something more honorable than conquest) in Europe were historically spearheaded by United Provinces, Hanseatic cities and all those guys who were militarily prepared.
Because Germany, as well as any other european state at that time, was a genocidal maniac who shouldn’t be trusted with guns. However the Germany of today is far removed from those times and rivalries. And we’re not even talking about Germany, but the EU as a whole. We are talking about Europe, was a community of states, providing the protection themselves that they enjoyed by the US in the past.
She’s absolutely right. And she identifies the core problem too. It only takes one country. So we’re trapped by the prisoner’s dilemma. There is a multiverse slice out there somewhere where Democracy solved these issues because proponents of military build ups were voted out everywhere. But it’s not our universe. As long as there’s a state building hard power to fuck with other countries we’re all trapped.
Democracy governing with good sense and moral integrity? That sounds a lot like entropy reversing itself. Possible in theory, but requires access to an infinite number of random universes to actually witness.
you seem to be trapped in the dilemma of picking up a flag when fighting against something.
Are you suggesting we need military preparedness in case of non state organizations?
Yeah, I mean the Vietnam war wasn’t without protest, and nor was the Gulf.
Always hard to know which side of history they’re going to be on though. Some wars are justified. You don’t want to be the guy holding the Hitler Did Nothing Wrong sign when the guy from down the road is sifting for teeth in a pile of ash.
For Iraq, the anti-war protests were really popular.
When France told the truth about the whole situation at the UN, the whole US population was right behind them and protested en masse in the streets.
Or maybe I misremember…
Story time: I went to an Iraq War protest back in the day. Some people wandered out of the protest zone and (to be completely fair, I didn’t see what started the altercation) got their asses beat by the cops. One brave kid stood out from the crowd and said, “Come on, guys! We have to help them!” We all looked at each other and were like, “Uh… no.” The brave lad then charged in and promptly got his ass beat by the cops. The war still happened.
Holy shit Americans are lame. No wonder your country sucks so much. In the civilised world that would’ve been a full on brawl, and they’d have burnt down the police station later for good measure.
Behold the native Internet Tough Guy in his comfortable habitat. From his keyboard, he is a great warrior. His hypothetical contributions to the history of war are legendary.
This really seems to depend on the society, say, French seem to have that healthy rioting culture where people would do as he says.
That’s not really a relevant criticism, I’m not talking about anything out of the ordinary. Plenty of not very tough people (like me) go to protests, but people are tougher when they are united. The idea that a protest would stick to some zone, or that people wouldn’t try to help each other against the cops, is super sad. It makes you think they don’t really believe in the thing they are protesting for at all.
Honestly, if you don’t look out for each other it seems to defeat the whole point of an organized protest. I can spread the word on my own in a safe space without fear of organized retaliatory violence.
I’ll let you lead the charge into the riot police.
I mean the French are constantly protesting/rioting but their police still brutalize protesters, rioters and innocent bystanders like it’s a sport for them.
Yeah for sure, cops suck in France too. But at least they fight back a bit.
civilised
brawl
arson
Sure, why not
(I get* that it’s a joke but what worries me is that it’s actually said candidly, and worse, sometimes I myself think stuff like that. It might be just or moral (debatable), but it sure as fuck isn’t civilized)
(*read: hope)
Because we have a fascism problem if you haven’t noticed
It’s ok. The FBI has an anti-fascism department.
antifa terrorists have infiltrated the government??!! /s
If we had a fascism problem you wouldn’t be able to say that.
“You can’t say we have a problem until you’re in line for the death camps”
Great plan, very helpful.
Only once they’ve taken over. But once there’s more than the unavoidable fringe of them around and they start having a real shot at power, you have a problem, even if they can’t yet stop people from criticizing them
America doesn’t have a fascism problem, Americans just like to see themselves as some sorts of victims. Russia, China and Iran do have a real fascism problem though.
The republican/right wing party attempted to overthrow an election. And they are unabashed about that. And somehow they still have a 3rd of the country still supporting them.
Is that not enough for us to qualify as having a real fascism problem?
It’s qualifying you for a real idiot problem, that’s for sure.
We very much have a fascism problem. It’s very very concerning and it’s very concerning you either are disregarding it or know nothing about it.
It’s probably because sending old scraps to Ukraine doesn’t make any money. Sending soldiers to die in Afghanistan was futile and guaranteed the production, sale, and shipment of more military tech/vehicles. Sending shit that was already made just costs money and doesn’t fellate the military industrial complex.
The idea that you think people in the Bush administration sent soldiers to Afghanistan to make money is insane, and shows me you have never worked in government or met anyone who has. I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant Iraq, not Afghanistan (since the US was attacked and the whole world agreed on going into Afghanistan). But even for Iraq, no one is making calculations on what’s good for the military industrial complex - they’re guessing on if the cost of human life is worth the human lives saved and suffering prevented, and yes “spreading democracy”. We can certainly mock it now, and talk about the WMD justification proving false, but the idea of going to war to somehow make money is insane. War is a net negative (look up broken window theory) and everyone in government knows it. The point of war is to change the global order, not pad pocketbooks, and effecting global change still would be the point even if it worked for making money - which it doesn’t.
The idea that you think people in the Bush administration sent soldiers to Afghanistan to make money is insane, and shows me you have never worked in government or met anyone who has.
The fact that you think this is so insane shows that you have no idea how the actual finances of sovereign currency works. What’d it cost them? Numbers on the “debt” that’s so astronomically high that it’s a joke?
since the US was attacked and the whole world agreed on going into Afghanistan
Yeah, sounds like you “worked” too closely to this militarization. That’s just blatantly false. Portions of the fucking US itself, the target of the attacks, still protested and was against going there.
War is a net negative (look up broken window theory) and everyone in government knows it.
Many huge corporations disagree, and profit off of this. Even in the early 2000s, while it was happening, Haliburton and Cheneys relationship were heavily criticized, because even if it’s some “net” negative or positive, there are people that stand to make a lot of money off one side of that equation.
The point of war is to change the global order, not pad pocketbooks
There were large issues people took with many international conflicts being about money and companies lining pockets. Whether it’s oil in the middle east, fruit in central America, or any of the others, there are many conflicts in the “global order” which have had huge impacts for the aggressor and their economy. If you want to try to justify each one, sure, but many points point to a trend.
To be fair, I always thought that the USA is more willing to do the latter rather than the former. And those protests existed in both cases, so a meme of an opposite meaning could probably be made. Or is it just that I don’t get the deepness of the joke?
Man this one is spicy haha
I mean c/NCD would strongly disagree with you…
(totally not for the Green M1A4 and CIWS memes)
Edit: oh duck I didn’t realize what instance this was… I am the stupid
I’d be more concerned with Europe neglecting their militaries for decades
They havnt. Its literally only when you compare directly to America that their militaries seem sub par.
Britain or France alone could go toe to toe with Russia in a conventional war. And would utterly dominate basically any county on the planet other than China Russia or the US. If it ever came to an all out war between Europe and Russia, Russia wouldn’t stand a chance. There would be Eurofighters over Moscow within a week.
Ah right, UK and France, two countries known for their pacifist ways. Or Finland and Poland, countries totally not ready to defend against a Russian offensive.
Because Daddy America and NATO would protect them.
Europe really should have formed its own pan-europa defense organisation during the years that NATO was getting softer.
No it’s because we survived 2 VERY destructive world wars in our homes and don’t have the stomach for massive military operations anymore.
Add to that the numerous laws and constitutional bans against building militaries too large (supported by America!). Austria constitutionally forced to remain neutral, Finland forced to remain neutral due to Russia, etc.
Do you really no tunderstand why Germany was discouraged and was resistant to building it’s military after two fucking world wars it started?
Really?
It’s not as simple as you make out. Europe also isn’t one country and one law.
Someone in this thread said Americans are reticent to support Ukraine because of pointless wars in the Middle East. Well imagine how fucking reticent you’d be if a massive chunk of your population died fighting wars in your own homes and back yard?
But the EU is kind of one country with one law. It is a federal system, but you can make a federal military structure. And the current European defense structure has been failing for a generation, constantly requiring American involvement and leadership.
And the EU initially started as way to tie together industries tied to defense as a way to keep the peace. At this point, might as well tie together the militaries as well.
Oh, look, propaganda! I guess the enshittification finally found Lemmy…
Propaganda is everywhere, I’m afraid.
You should probably do some research into what enshittification is before using it.
No, let’s just keep overusing it, like “gaslight”.
The bottom image is every liberal right now
Even in the context of US political crazyness your comment doen’t make sense.
'We must not do the right moral thing because that would hurt us financially and strategically"
Hey retard, it’s the Republicans that are against arming Ukraine.
