cross-posted from: https://lemmy.zip/post/1520149
Archived version: https://archive.ph/jTCrJ
Archived version: https://web.archive.org/web/20230816141231/https://www.euronews.com/2023/08/15/german-cabinet-set-to-approve-plans-to-liberalise-cannabis-rules
As an American living in a state where cannabis has been legal and easily available for almost 10 years, it’s really surprising just how slowly some other places are moving with legalization.
Weed is not harmful enough to warrant being criminalized anywhere, and it’s a great injustice when people’s lives are ruined because of overly strict cannabis laws. Kudos to Germany for moving to decriminalize, but isn’t it about time we all legalized the stuff?
To get anything like that off the ground in Germany is quite a feat and an ordeal because it’s such a conservative country.
Things here need to be discussed a million times until they are dead.
Until I have this in writing I will not believe that it is happening because Germany.
Ha yeah, I still don’t fully believe its happening. There could be a new drug minister that just says “nah bro, its illegal cuz its illegal” you know.
But I think EU was in the way of legalizing too at first.
It was not really necessary to ask the EU for permission. Other countries did not do this.
This was a bit of a strawman thing to ask the EU and then the EU says no and you can blame them.
Idk what countries legalized canabis, I think only spain. Netherlands only encrimilzed it but its still illegal there. But idk how this is exactly done there with the shops.
They all use some sort of loophole to make this possible in some way.
These social clubs in Spain are due to some way of getting around the law, so are coffee shops in NL.
I don’t think these countries asked the EU if this is all bulletproof. That’s what I meant with other countries did not aks the EU.
Makes sense. Germany is this strict cultute that wants to have everything perfect. I mean, I live in germany. Its teenages who don’t give a fuck and older people who have everything perfect. And many nerds.
Yeah, up here in Canada it’s honestly crazy how normalized it’s become and what a complete and utter non-issue it is. Always a bit of culture shock when I go travelling now.
What’s bizarre in the UK is that we don’t have legislation and seem to be fair from it, but it’s still incredibly normalised. I’m at the point where I don’t even think about the law when I buy and vape these days.
And people like myself who have a medical prescription can get 10-20g of 21% THC flower at a time delivered to my door from the pharmacy via DPD next day delivery, completely legally.
But the government are utterly shit, so I have no faith of it being legally allowed for recreational purposes any time soon here
I mean, I don’t have a prescription, but get mine in the post too.
It was pretty normalized in some places for a while before legalization too.
It definitely was fairly normalized pre-legalization, but it’s a whole nother level now. 40+ year old parents are fairly regularly using it at social functions, the stigma around it has just incredibly dissipated.
Except for police who target communities they dont like
Can you maybe add some actual legal details here? Because as far as I know cannabis is indeed illegal on the federal level in the US, too. Which is the whole point they try to change here.
Just like in a lot of US states, several EU countries have legalized it to the point where it’s legal or at least decriminalized on the consumer level. But that doesn’t do shit if production and sale aren’t legal on a bigger level as it either breeds a criminal network in the background doing the logistics or just scattered local and private production often also cut of from the financial system completely as on that federal level cannabis is still illegal.
So the actual point here is legalization on der German federal level and also comply again with the bigger EU legal frameworks. To get rid of the black market and to get cannabis production and sale regularly taxed and controlled.
The difficulty is not some imaginary conservativism in Europe or Germany or misconceptions about the dangers of cannabis. It’s simply not doable without bending and working around a lot of existing laws and regulations including even the UN’s Commission on Narcotic Drugs.
For the same reason you might have some states where cannabis is legal for a decade and more that half of all states having it legalized in the meantime by now. But you are also still far away from actual legalization in your whole country and on the federal level as the US has also bound themselves to decades old UN and other agreements that categorically prohibit legalization.
That’s also the whole reason it took that new Germqan government full two years for the first (and very restricted) draft of a law when what they wanted was full legalization. Not only are single conservative German states fighting tooth and nail against a German-wide legalization, but their plans were also constantly shut down by the EU as incompatible with EU law. And other countries in the EU aren’t helpful either. Some went for their own and also very flawed way of just decriminalization and the ones open to legalization just watched for years now hoping Germany will do the work and solve the issue with the EU.
fantastic post, thank you
Not only are single conservative German states fighting tooth and nail against a German-wide legalization, but their plans were also constantly shut down by the EU as incompatible with EU law.
i tend to assume that most of the “Conservative” energy is brought by the beer industry… they fight it pretty hard in the US, with good reason… my alcohol expenditures have evaporated since legalization here…
Can you maybe add some actual legal details here? Because as far as I know cannabis is indeed illegal on the federal level in the US, too.
Yes, that’s right. Cannabis is illegal federally in the United States, and I also find that to be strange and without real merit.
However I live in the state of Oregon where recreational cannabis has been legal for quite a while, legal dispensaries are all over the place, and each household can grow up to 4 cannabis plants, and so on. It’s cheap, legal, very easily available to people over 21, and most importantly, becoming normalized.
Federal cannabis laws are mostly irrelevant to the average user, but are certainly still relevant to the industry for financial and shipping reasons, though I don’t work in cannabis so I can’t really go into details. As a cannabis enjoyer, you aren’t supposed to take it across state lines and it probably wouldn’t be smart to try to bring it through airport security, but we have open borders between states and there’s effectively nothing stopping you from driving between states with cannabis. (Though it’s probably smart to be aware of state level laws wherever you travel.) Federal laws don’t impede or supersede state laws necessarily (it’s complicated), and when you live in a part of the country where it’s legalized it can be surprising (and sad) to remember that there are still places in the US where people are jailed for simple possession.
I can’t speak to all of Europe but having recently visited Ireland, the UK and the Netherlands (a place that has been famous in the past for its progressive laws), the difference from how cannabis is treated in those countries vs here in the US West Coast and Canada seems stark.
We do have a significant black market here, but from what I understand that’s almost entirely based on demand from overseas Asian markets where the stuff is still highly illegal. Afterall, its the illegal market demand that creates demand for illegal growers, not the legal market. Oregon puts in effort to crack down in illegal growers and sellers, and all of the legal entities in the chain are registered, registered, taxes, and have their products tested.
But anyway, it’s not a competition. I think Cannabis ought to be legalized and tolerated worldwide. Europe does a lot of things better and faster than the US, but personally I feel that you are far behind on cannabis law (based on my limited, anecdotal experiences visiting Europe in recent years). Both the EU and the US federal government should dramatically change their laws with regards to cannabis and stay out of the way of the areas that want to legalize it.
It’s a little bit more “legal” than decriminalisation in more European countries if you consider paying for membership in a CSC, where the buying is more a service fee than one-to-one sale. They’re also non-profit cooperatives (democratically owned), which is pretty interesting.
Although the Nordics which are usually pretty progressive, have not even decriminalised recreational use yet - so they’re definitely being weirdly conservative about it.
Better late than never
It’s not even legalization, more decriminalization which even tho is a step in the right direction isn’t a whole lot. It can’t even be sold like in Amsterdam, it’s just social clubs and homegrowing.
Don’t get me wrong I love the plans, but there were promises to legalize completely and not just decriminalization.
I actually found the clubs in Barcelona much nicer than the Coffee Shops in Dam on a visit, so I have no issue with this model.
Never been to Barcelona, how is it there? U just sign up and can buy weed right?
I thought it was great, had to request an invite online then once they know you’re coming you sign up on the day and are let in. Thought the products they had on offer were much better than Dam in terms of quality and variety. The club was nicer than a coffee shop too, most of Dams coffee shops seems to be stuck in an eternal 90s smoker culture and never moved on.
Total disagree. This legislation would be the biggest step towards legalization since…ever. Owning and consuming 30 grams completely legally? That’s fucking huge!
It can’t even be sold like in Amsterdam
This is supposed to be addressed in the intended second law, which however needs approval from another government body, the Bundesrat, formed by the government of the states and in which the anti legalization conservatives have a majority. And I don’t see you debating and convincing them, so why should they suddenly change their position? Additionally, in stark contrast to dutch implementation, it allows for public consumption, while in the Netherlands, consumption is only allowed in coffee shops.
Sorry, but your complaints are like criticizing someone for wanting to take the stairs to the first floor, and demand they just magically fly straight to the third one.
First of all, 25 grams is the maximum you are allowed to carry/own. I said it’s a step in the right direction, which it is and the politicians promised legalization not decriminalization. I also think it’s very good that they did anything at all since it’s a problem around the globe, decriminalization just isn’t going to make all the problems go away since u can still get into problems.
I also know about the EU Laws and or Bundesrat and why they can’t legalize completely yet, but still they promised us.
but still they promised us.
Yeah and the Boxer in that fight last night promised me an exiting fight, but then dropped K.O. in the first round.
You can make the campaign promise to try to legalize Marihuana. You can actually mean it with all your might and will. But all your plans will still annihilate on first contact with reality, and what you do then is what counts. When you then try every possible idea to get closer to your goal, you are doing exactly what you promised to do: try your best to achieve your goal.
That’s what this government is doing, and I respect them for that. I count that as a promise kept because they really put in the work to get us as close to legalization as possible.
Yeah I know politicians lie to get votes, it was just such a big talking point for young people who only voted for them because the were going to do that, but now they don’t.
I’m still happy at least something is happening and they don’t just pretend that they never promised something like that.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Approval of the plan would be the first step to legalising possession of limited amounts of the drug and allow ‘cannabis club’ members to buy it for recreational purposes.
Germany is set to approve a plan to liberalise the country’s rules on cannabis, which could see adults allowed to possess up to 25 grams of the drug and grow a maximum of three plants for personal use.
The proposed plan is a stride forward for a prominent reform project of Chancellor Olaf Scholz’s socially liberal coalition, though significantly short of the government’s original ambitions.
Officials hope legalisation will help push back the black market, protect consumers against contaminated products, and reduce drug-related crime.
The centre-right opposition believes the government is pressing ahead with legalising a risky drug despite European legal obstacles and expert opinion.
The government said it plans to follow the new legislation with a second step which would see five-year tests of regulated commercial supply chains in select regions.
I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Great! Next UK please.
Yeah, not likely we’re getting legalisation for at least another decade with the culture over here.
Great! Next UK please.
It annoys the shit out me that anyone would have the sheer fucking gall to call it liberalizing something liberals outlawed and had a fifty year moral panic over.
Wrong liberal jackass.
lib·er·al·ly
/ˈlib(ə)rəlē/
adverb- in large or generous amounts.
- in a way that is not precise or strictly literal; loosely.
They’re loosing the laws
Woah, bruh, it’s like one term was named after the other or something, that’s craaaazzzzzyyyy
Wrong order mate
You realize that doesn’t matter in 2023, right?